Greed of the Super Rich, Lizzie in Trouble.

[I1L2T3]

Thats fine. I have no argumet with that.

 

So WHEN and only when such time arises that a scheme is retrospectively declared evasion it will of course be up to those individuals to do the right thing and pay what is owed. If they dont then they are open for attack.

 

However, UNTIL that happens these schemes remsin perfectly legal. Therefore what right has these so called jounalists got to disclose someones private information and drag their finances, name and reputation through the mud for doing nothing wrong.

 

Not just evasion. Sometimes a scheme can actually be legal but contrary to the GAAR. Not all legal avoidance schemes are allowed to stay legal.

 

Just a reminder that one of the journalists involved with this was murdered by a car bomb last month. It’s probably not all as sweet and innocent as you make out.

[sgtkate]

 

Ignorance of where a wealthy person's money is invested should be no defence. Tax evasion and avoidance steals from the poor and gives to the rich.

 

2 things here:

 

1) Noone has been accused (except Lewis Hamilton!) of tax EVASION. Tax avoidance is legal.

2) Do you know where every single penny you have is currently invested?

[ez8004]

Must be nice to be able to allow someone access to your brass and make "investments" you know nothing about costing £10 million.

 

Who do you think manages pension funds? Hedge funds are available for people to invest in if you are so inclined.

[RiffRaff]

Don't understand the fuss, personally.

The phrase "Those who have, will have more" is hardly new...and let's be honest, anyone who does a "cash in hand" job is doing the same, except at a much lower level.

It all seems to centre on it "being unfair", but if/when the system permits it, people with enough wealth/contacts will find/use it.

[sgtkate]

Don't understand the fuss, personally.

The phrase "Those who have, will have more" is hardly new...and let's be honest, anyone who does a "cash in hand" job is doing the same, except at a much lower level.

It all seems to centre on it "being unfair", but if/when the system permits it, people with enough wealth/contacts will find/use it.

 

Yep, exactly. It really does annoy me when people that have more money than they could ever realistically spend still go through ridiculously convoluted methods to avoid paying taxes back to the countries that enabled them to get rich in the first place, but the issue here is more that it's legal and not that people use it. Our tax laws need to get much, much tighter and it's been said enough times so perhaps this time something will actually change.

[Staunton]

There is no such thing as tax abuse!

 

They are not tax havens, they are Finance Centres!

 

Finance Centres do not provide secrecy, they deliver a confidential service!

 

Howard Quayle, the Isle of Man's chief minister, denies that the island is a tax haven.

 

'Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.' - journalist Claud Cockburn.

 

'When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.' (Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass)

 

Here's the political consultant to George W. Bush and all-round neoliberal ideologue Karl Rove on reality:

 

'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'

 

Which level of reality do the people of Sheffield prefer?

[tinfoilhat]

Yep, exactly. It really does annoy me when people that have more money than they could ever realistically spend still go through ridiculously convoluted methods to avoid paying taxes back to the countries that enabled them to get rich in the first place, but the issue here is more that it's legal and not that people use it. Our tax laws need to get much, much tighter and it's been said enough times so perhaps this time something will actually change.

 

According to Vince Cable - economic I-told-you-so guru, former president of the board of trade - it cant be done, and he doesnt undeerstand it. He went on telly and said that.

[spilldig]

Yep, exactly. It really does annoy me when people that have more money than they could ever realistically spend still go through ridiculously convoluted methods to avoid paying taxes back to the countries that enabled them to get rich in the first place, but the issue here is more that it's legal and not that people use it. Our tax laws need to get much, much tighter and it's been said enough times so perhaps this time something will actually change.

 

That sums it up as I see it.

[L00b]

According to Vince Cable - economic I-told-you-so guru, former president of the board of trade - it cant be done, and he doesnt undeerstand it. He went on telly and said that.

The only reason it "can't be done", is insufficient political capital and coordination (international effort) to push the requisite reforms through, due to the (Brexit-like) economic consequences of 'stopping it dead' (which could be done with sufficient political stock and cooperation - but at what human cost at our 'lowly' everyman, everyday level).

 

Otherwise, of course it can be done; or, well, started at the very least: for those who care to look for facts rather than reprising hearsay and slogans, both the EU and the US (with others in tow, e.g. France and Germany) have achieved an awful about 'tax havens' in the past decade and a bit.

 

Stashing money away in 'tax havens' used to be a really widespread phenomenon and practice between the 70s and until the late 90s approx. (probably earlier as well), often times no more difficult than packing a suitcase full of notes, hoping over the border(s) (then not, after Schengen, for Continental tax havens) and doing a cash deposit. Then let that pile make babies away from the tax man, and what was that again about inheritance tax?

 

Nowadays it's a struggle to find and access service providers unless you're introduced (and so gravitating in the right 'spheres'), and many of the early 'tax havens' are nothing of the sort any more (e.g. Switzerland, Luxembourg - which, if you reside in a different EU country, are now statutorily-bound to declare your local earnings from your pile in LU/CH to your EU28 tax man).

 

It's become the preserve of the mega-rich, as always because what is rare (and becoming rarer) is expensive (and only getting more so). Some will no doubt see this as the 0.1% pulling up the ladder after themselves. But objectively, it's more symptomatic of the pool of tax havens (and associated services) becoming ever smaller (due to international efforts as mentioned above).

 

It's not an easy problem to solve, by far, both due to its inherent complexity (it's probably amounts to some of the most complex fiscal-cum-legal challenges ever) and because of what's at stake for those more immediately concerned ('loss' of assets), and the level of resources they can bring to bear on preserving the status quo.

 

To illustrate the point, the sort of profit-offshoring arrangements disclosed in the Paradise Papers which are currently reported about Apple and Nike, have been known to business people and accountants (and politicians of course) for years and years and longer. How often have I mentioned Microsoft's Island One operation in Dublin on here? Same purpose as Apple's, and every (lay) man and their dog in Dublin knew about it long before 2004 (when I first became aware of it). Nothing had been done about it for a very long time. But when it eventually was, few expensive phones calls and advice, then the dosh was just transferred to the next tax haven.

 

Whacking all the tax haven moles takes time. Leaks like these along the way, help a lot.

Edited November 7, 2017 by L00b

[Car Boot]

Lewis Hamilton actually lives in Monaco, so his tax "dodging" has been to leave the country. How can you legislate against people going to live where there are lower tax rates?

 

The tax scrounger Lewis Hamilton purchased a private jet outside the EU, which is subject to twenty per cent VAT in order to import it and fly it freely around the continent. He claimed that the jet was purely for business use - which made it exempt from the VAT.

 

But over a third of his journeys on this obscene symbol of wealth and consumption have been for private use, holidays with girlfriends etc. These pleasure seeking trips should be taxed by law.

 

His lawyers have confirmed that no VAT has been paid for the jet.

 

Scrounger Hamilton prefers a wasteful private jet because he hates to travel with the hoi polloi, who pay their taxes.

 

Like taxes, climate change is only for the 'little people' to worry about. Disgusting.

 

---------- Post added 07-11-2017 at 15:03 ----------

 

So now we know what motivates top sportsmen. Probably the daftest statement I've ever read on Sheffield Forum.

 

What motivates tax scrounger Hamilton is massively increasing his carbon footprint, doing his bit to accelerate climate change and withholding tax that could be used for essential public services.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Car Boot