D.o.t propose to intruduce pay per mile

[rudds1]

Been reported the dot is thinking of introducing pay per mile for hgv and then perhaps cars to follow. Would this just mean higher prices for goods in shops etc ?

[RollingJ]

Been reported the dot is thinking of introducing pay per mile for hgv and then perhaps cars to follow. Would this just mean higher prices for goods in shops etc ?

 

Link?

 

More detail?

[choogling]

Been reported the dot is thinking of introducing pay per mile for hgv and then perhaps cars to follow. Would this just mean higher prices for goods in shops etc ?

 

hgv's have a speedo/milometer drive linked to the taco-graph recorder so it would be fairly simple to charge per mile, the drive is sealed to prevent tampering but black boxes exist that can interfere with the system.

[rudds1]

Link?

 

More detail?

 

Don't know how to put links up

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2017 at 20:42 ----------

 

hgv's have a speedo/milometer drive linked to the taco-graph recorder so it would be fairly simple to charge per mile, the drive is sealed to prevent tampering but black boxes exist that can interfere with the system.

 

Just use either a magnet across gearbox or a remote garage door opener ,both stop taco recording

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2017 at 21:00 ----------

 

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[Cyclone]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42464125

 

That's the story.

 

Presumably it would replace the high VED that they have to pay, so on average the price of transporting goods would remain the same...

[Thorpist]

It seems inevitable that someway of raising taxes from vehicles has to be found if the expected explosion of electric vehicles happens.

if technology can be found that does the job then paying per mile might be the way to go.

It would certainly encourage more efficient logistics

[rudds1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42464125

 

That's the story.

 

Presumably it would replace the high VED that they have to pay, so on average the price of transporting goods would remain the same...

 

Some hgv,s are not that dear to tax. Some I used to drive were plated at 33 tons and iirc the tax was around £500. A Nissan Pathfinder car costs more to tax than those hgv,s

[Cyclone]

if technology can be found that does the job then paying per mile might be the way to go.

 

After thinking really hard about it, I realised that simply taxing fuel does exactly that.

You drive further, or less efficiently, or more often, you pay more tax.

So scrap VED and replace it with a tax on fuel that raises exactly the amount lost.

[Thorpist]

As stated the tax revenue is falling on fuel so the money has to be found from somewhere and paying per mile pays for the wear and tear to roads infrastructure etc.

It would be good to hear alternatives.

[Cyclone]

2016/17 Fuel duties 27.6 billion

 

The share of revenue coming from indirect taxes has fallen since

the late 1990s, mainly because fuel duties have been cut substantially in

real terms.

 

Total tax as a percentage of retail price

Year Petrol Diesel

1978 47 49

1988 68 63

1998 76 82

2008 62 58

2016 71 71

 

You can see a shift from petrol to diesel over time, but overall volumes are fairly flat

https://www.racfoundation.org/data/volume-petrol-diesel-consumed-uk-over-time-by-year

 

So I contend that tax revenue from fuel is not falling, not as yet. Although it might, if electric cars actually start to account for a large volume of sales.

 

electric cars now represent around 1.8 per cent of the total new car market in the UK.

This trend is increasing, but as yet it's insufficient to have reduced fuel duty revenue. (This figure includes hybrids).

http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/statistics/

 

About 50k new electric or hybrids sold in 2017. 2.6 million in total were registered in the same time frame. So that's 2.55 million petrol or diesel.

 

Of course the overall numbers of cars registered and on the road continues to increase generally

https://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac_foundation/content/downloadables/car%20ownership%20in%20great%20britain%20-%20leibling%20-%20171008%20-%20report.pdf

The car parc2

has risen from 19 million in 1971 to over 31 million in 2007, an

average growth rate of 3% per annum (See: Figure 1). The increase in individual

years has reflected economic conditions; during the 1973 -1978 period after the

first oil shock and during the early 1990s recession, growth was less than ½% per

annum. Growth has also slowed in the past three years.

Despite these fluctuations, the trend of increasing car ownership is quite clear

(See: Figure 2) and if growth continues on the same linear basis by 2020 there will

be over 37 million cars in the UK. More optimistic projections based on

accelerating population growth suggest that there could be 44 million cars by then.

 

So there are more cars than ever on the road, of which the vast majority are not electric, and which pay 71% tax (of the total retail price, which is also the highest it's ever been)...

The tax on fuel, specific fuel duty and VAT is producing the most income for the government it ever has. The precise opposite of what you said.

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2017 at 22:36 ----------

 

Going forwards I accept that the revenue will fall as more electric vehicles are sold

 

Kevin Nicholson, head of tax at PwC, said the government would need to move quickly to reverse a decline in fuel duty that is already under way. The Treasury’s official forecaster, the Office for Budget Responsibility, has predicted a decline of a fifth in receipts by 2020/21.