Anna B Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 We do need to build more hospitals. But the problem is how do they staff them ? It takes years to train doctors etc. It will take a generation before we catch up with the rise in population even if we could find enough people. We should have been training our own doctors and nurses for years, instead of pinching them from other countries who have paid to train them and need them just as much as we do. The rise in population is hardly a surprise is it? Same with a lot of other jobs. Where are our trained builders, electricians, brick layers etc? What has been happening in this country to have such a dirth of properly skilled workers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 We should have been training our own doctors and nurses for years, instead of pinching them from other countries who have paid to train them and need them just as much as we do. The rise in population is hardly a surprise is it? Same with a lot of other jobs. Where are our trained builders, electricians, brick layers etc? What has been happening in this country to have such a dirth of properly skilled workers? The drive to either send young people o university or consign them to a scrap heap - its been going on for years. I'm trying to find out how many further education colleges have shut over the past 20 years. I suspect the number is rather high. As far as new hospitals and training nurses etc, again I ask the question, how much more tax do you want to pay. Reform clearly isn't going to work so we need to throw more money at the problem. I'll open the bidding at 30% VAT, £3 a litre in petrol and income tax rises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Arctor Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 The drive to either send young people o university or consign them to a scrap heap - its been going on for years. I'm trying to find out how many further education colleges have shut over the past 20 years. I suspect the number is rather high. As far as new hospitals and training nurses etc, again I ask the question, how much more tax do you want to pay. Reform clearly isn't going to work so we need to throw more money at the problem. I'll open the bidding at 30% VAT, £3 a litre in petrol and income tax rises. I agree with you on vocational education, the increased tax can be more progressive. Don't most people agree with paying more tax if it's ring-fenced for the NHS anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I agree with you on vocational education, the increased tax can be more progressive. Don't most people agree with paying more tax if it's ring-fenced for the NHS anyway? They don't mind chipping round the edges with tax but we need massive investment. Apparently everyone wants the railways nationalising - that's £80bn plus all day long. And we've just committed to a £40bn brexit deal (for openers). Progressive tax ain't going to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Same with a lot of other jobs. Where are our trained builders, electricians, brick layers etc? What has been happening in this country to have such a dirth of properly skilled workers? How its meant to work, is that if workers are sparse, we pay them more money. People complain about ANY worker being paid a lot of money, get over it, don't be jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 How its meant to work, is that if workers are sparse, we pay them more money. People complain about ANY worker being paid a lot of money, get over it, don't be jealous. ? What's jealousy got to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrystottle Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I've started to watch American true life murder / crime shows instead of the TV news on the grounds that they are more cheerful. I never saw this story on TV news but it has a massive bearing on our current NHS crisis. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/29/number-nhs-beds-hashalved-30-years-major-study-warns/ NHS beds in 1987, 299,000. NHS beds in 2017, 142,000. Population is up by 16% (at least), number of pensioners up by a third, number of available beds has gone down by more than 50%. Bearing that in mind, that victim blaming phrase of "bed blockers" seems even more vile. People dying on trollies because there aren't enough beds? Well they would, wouldn't they? Whose idea was all this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilldig Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I agree with you on vocational education, the increased tax can be more progressive. Don't most people agree with paying more tax if it's ring-fenced for the NHS anyway? No, not when the whole thing is grossly top heavy. Millions could be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 I've started to watch American true life murder / crime shows instead of the TV news on the grounds that they are more cheerful. I never saw this story on TV news but it has a massive bearing on our current NHS crisis. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/29/number-nhs-beds-hashalved-30-years-major-study-warns/ NHS beds in 1987, 299,000. NHS beds in 2017, 142,000. Population is up by 16% (at least), number of pensioners up by a third, number of available beds has gone down by more than 50%. Bearing that in mind, that victim blaming phrase of "bed blockers" seems even more vile. People dying on trollies because there aren't enough beds? Well they would, wouldn't they? Whose idea was all this? As you say, this never made the mainstream news, yet it is arguably one of the most pertinent facts in the whole NHS debacle. It's lying by ommision. Governments would rather blame anyone but themselves. Blaming the victims is their default setting, and still people fall for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) I've started to watch American true life murder / crime shows instead of the TV news on the grounds that they are more cheerful. I never saw this story on TV news but it has a massive bearing on our current NHS crisis. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/29/number-nhs-beds-hashalved-30-years-major-study-warns/ NHS beds in 1987, 299,000. NHS beds in 2017, 142,000. Population is up by 16% (at least), number of pensioners up by a third, number of available beds has gone down by more than 50%. Bearing that in mind, that victim blaming phrase of "bed blockers" seems even more vile. People dying on trollies because there aren't enough beds? Well they would, wouldn't they? Whose idea was all this? The vast majority of the bed loss was due to the closure of large long stay mental handicap / learning difficulty units (eg Middlewood) and long term provision for the elderly on hospital wards - "care in the community". The responsibility (but nothing like the full funding) was passed to local authorities - the main reason for the decline in volume and standard of local authority services over the last 30 years. The most worrying thing from that report is; "Most other advanced health care systems have also reduced bed numbers in recent years. However, the UK currently has fewer acute beds relative to its population than almost any other comparable health system" https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hospital-bed-numbers Edited January 8, 2018 by Longcol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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