What is equality to you?

[Halibut]

8 minutes ago, neworderishere said:

well unfortunately life is a little bit <removed> not very nice, thats how humankind works there will always be haves and have nots,  i would love the latest Aston martin etc etc but i just havent been given the chance??

as for sticking my head in the sand! everyone does have the same chance they just have to optimise those chances differently. 

Really? So a black kid in inner city Birmingham born to a single parent crack addicted mother living in a string of substandard rented flats and hostels has the same chance as a white boy whose parents are professionals in a leafy Surrey suburb? Dream on.

[danot]

1 minute ago, Mister M said:

But neither will sticking your head in the sand and pretending everyone has the same chances and that everyone gets their just deserts.

And what's the alternative, should employers for instance, employ men, women and none whites in equal proportions irrespective of their qualifications, experience, personality etc, effectively discriminating against potential candidates because they're sex or skin colour doesn't meet his needs? 

 

Back to square one aren't we.

[Mister M]

25 minutes ago, neworderishere said:

well unfortunately life is a little bit <removed> not very nice, thats how humankind works there will always be haves and have nots,  i would love the latest Aston martin etc etc but i just havent been given the chance??

as for sticking my head in the sand! everyone does have the same chance they just have to optimise those chances differently. 

Arrant nonsense.

Governments, even right wing ones like ours, clearly know that people don't have the same chances in life. Numerous pieces of equality legislation are witness to that. Nothing to do with 'optimising their chances' differently.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Mister M

[WiseOwl182]

9 hours ago, Cyclone said:

It's not hypocrisy and it's entirely reasonable to make some assumptions in the UK about people based on the few factors you know about them.

Your assertion that it isn't possible is disingenuous and in support of the ridiculous "me too" nonsense that people throw up when you point out how ethnic minorities are systemically disadvantaged in the UK.

 

It is hypocrisy. You are making assumptions about strangers based on their race. If you were doing the same about black people, then there'd be cries of "racist" from people like you. It's called hypocrisy. Deny it as many times as you like, we can go on forever 

[WiseOwl182]

55 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Really? So a black kid in inner city Birmingham born to a single parent crack addicted mother living in a string of substandard rented flats and hostels has the same chance as a white boy whose parents are professionals in a leafy Surrey suburb? Dream on.

The race in those 2 scenarios makes very little if any difference. Swap the races around and the second one still has a massive advantage and privilege.

[woodview]

1 hour ago, Halibut said:

I mean anybody that needs a bit of help. I don't think it's patronising, it's just recognising that some people need a bit of help getting their voices heard and their needs addressed.

What mystifies me though is why some people hear ''let's give (insert minority group here) a leg up'' and take it to mean that society is falling apart, or that the world has suddenly become a hostile place to white heterosexual men. My best guess is that they're insecure and poorly parented individuals who weren't loved enough as kids.

You might be in a privileged position, so can take that stance. I, and I suspect many others on here don't come from a privileged background. I grew up on a council estate and have manged to work myself into a good position by frickin hard graft. Luckily I now work for myself, but certainly wouldn't appreciate someone 'getting a leg up' at the expense of someone who's more capable , just to balance up the numbers.

I suspect most of these comments come from people who are in very comfortable positions.

 

[SnailyBoy]

7 minutes ago, woodview said:

You might be in a privileged position, so can take that stance. I, and I suspect many others on here don't come from a privileged background. I grew up on a council estate and have manged to work myself into a good position by frickin hard graft. Luckily I now work for myself, but certainly wouldn't appreciate someone 'getting a leg up' at the expense of someone who's more capable , just to balance up the numbers.

I suspect most of these comments come from people who are in very comfortable positions.

 

It isn't at the expense of someone more capable. Positive action can come into effect when the capabilities are equal.

 

Call it levelling the playing field for those people who despite 'frickin hard graft' don't always get the breaks they deserve.

[nikki-red]

Posts have been removed. If you cant have a discussion without resorting to personal comments and insults then please dont post at all.

[woodview]

8 minutes ago, SnailyBoy said:

It isn't at the expense of someone more capable. Positive action can come into effect when the capabilities are equal.

 

Call it levelling the playing field for those people who despite 'frickin hard graft' don't always get the breaks they deserve.

Is it called 'positive action' now, because 'positive discrimination' was too reflective of what it actually is?

People should progress by one thing only - Merit. Anything else is wrong. Positive discrimination is as bad as any other form.

I don't care if someone doing a job is black, white, asian, male, female, gay or straight, so long as they are the best person for the job. That is equality, nothing else.

[Mister M]

1 minute ago, woodview said:

Is it called 'positive action' now, because 'positive discrimination' was too reflective of what it actually is?

People should progress by one thing only - Merit. Anything else is wrong. Positive discrimination is as bad as any other form.

I don't care if someone doing a job is black, white, asian, male, female, gay or straight, so long as they are the best person for the job. That is equality, nothing else.

People who are wheelchair bound who still have to battle to hard to ensure that as many buildings and services are as accessible as possible. It's a shame that in a discussion about equality people overlook the basics