Does the NHS have a duty to provide a bed?

[monkeygirl]

HI. I'm looking for some information about what the NHS is legally obliged to provide.

 

My mum has severe dementia. Her condition has deteriorated significantly. Last week her carers rang Social Services and spoke to the Duty Team to say she was unsafe at home. There are various people involved so I won't go into too much detail. She was basically "left" all weekend. On Tuesday a psychiatrist assessed her and said she needed to be admitted under the Mental Health Act (i.e. sectioned). I was promised she be given a bed by the end of this week. It's not happened. She is a real danger to herself and you never know when something is going to happen (i.e. wandering in the night, walking in the middle of busy roads). We are now on our second weekend with no real promise of anything happening even next week.

 

I asked if she could be admitted to general mental health ward. No - they don't take dementia patients. Could she be treated out of area. No - not our policy. No nursing / care home will apparently take her because she can be violent and has this "section."

 

So my question is, do the NHS or Social Services have a duty to provide a bed for someone who has been deemed unsafe at home? Any suggestions would be really helpful as I am fighting so hard for my mum and need any knowledge people have got.

 

Thanks in advance

[cgksheff]

Am I correct in thinking that it has been recommended that she be 'sectioned', but this has not actually been done.

 

Officially, merely being sectioned would not give a patient priority over a voluntary patient with the same clinical need.

 

Sadly, as with medical beds, if there is no room, there is not much that can be done and care often comes too late.

 

For the time being, is there no possibility of increasing the level of care so that she is not left alone?

Edited January 20, 2018 by cgksheff

[monkeygirl]

Yes. She was accessed by a psychiatrist who went away to "fill in the paperwork" and I was assured that she would be admitted somewhere by Friday (i.e. yesterday).

 

I have pushed and pushed but feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall.

[I1L2T3]

I hope you get this sorted monkey girl. The system is so confusing and you shouldn’t have to ask these questions. You should be told what is available and what the options for you and your mum are. It must be so worrying.

 

Can you get your MP to help? Citizens advice?

[monkeygirl]

Yes, it's awful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

My local MP, local Councillors and the Carers Centre have all been involved (and have all been very supportive).But still we're in this situation :-(

 

I hope you get this sorted monkey girl. The system is so confusing and you shouldn’t have to ask these questions. You should be told what is available and what the options for you and your mum are. It must be so worrying.

 

Can you get your MP to help? Citizens advice?

[tinfoilhat]

There are certainly some nursing homes that will take dementia sufferers with violent tendencies but more often than those who can be difficult to manage are put on a drug which I can't remember- it's often described as a chemical coshe. My dad was on it in small doses for a short spell. Some care homes dish it out like sweets. It might be a Parkinson's drug - I'll have a Google.

 

I'm sure this is going to be under the remit of social services. We were under Derbyshire county council so I'm not sure what Sheffield offer. There might be a number 24/7 to talk to someone (the bloke at DCC wasn't a lot of help. Depending on how wired she currently is she might have a water infection that tends to make symptoms of dementia a lot worse as I'm sure you may have observed yourself. If she's got a temperature I'd roll up at A&E and get their thoughts.

 

With regards to "duty of care" I don't know but if push social services and/or potentially ring round homes yourself. I'm 4 years out of it since my dad suffered so things would have changed and different councils do things differently. Maybe even the Alzheimer's society could point you in the right direction - they've been helpful in the past or your GP - if you can get to see them.

 

quetiapine - powerful ****. My old boy was going to cause zero aggro when he was on it full tilt - turned him into a zombie. Horrible, but got him into a nice home who managed him without needing to use it.

Edited January 20, 2018 by tinfoilhat

[pattricia]

She needs to be in a special nursing home for dementia patients. Mental health is at the bottom of the list regarding priorities.

[Anna B]

They may be able to find her a bed quicker if you push, but remember it could be at the other end of the country. For emergency admissions they may scour other health authorities to find a vacant bed.

 

For what it's worth, when my elderly Mum was ill,(not Dementia) she was put in a general ward at Northern General, where the lady in the bed opposite seemed to have serious dementia issues and was in a constant state of aggitation, calling out and screaming etc. (I know no more about her condition than that,) so maybe they bend the rules sometimes

[tinfoilhat]

They may be able to find her a bed quicker if you push, but remember it could be at the other end of the country. For emergency admissions they may scour other health authorities to find a vacant bed.

 

For what it's worth, when my elderly Mum was ill,(not Dementia) she was put in a general ward at Northern General, where the lady in the bed opposite seemed to have serious dementia issues and was in a constant state of aggitation, calling out and screaming etc. (I know no more about her condition than that,) so maybe they bend the rules sometimes

 

There stacks of dementia sufferers in hospitals around the country waiting to be moved somewhere more suitable.

[Jomie]

Monkeygirl - have a look at this, in particular section three. Apparently for someone to be sectioned, three professionals have to agree. From your post, it seems that your mother has not yet been sectioned. Presumably if she had been detained under the Mental Health Act the authorities would have had to move her immediately.

 

If your mum is sectioned and owns her own home, AFAIK she should not be liable for care home costs once she is deemed fit to transfer but take further advice about this.

 

You might receive more useful and helpful information from the carers.org forum. They have a helpline and the number is on the website. Until a bed is found for your mum, you could perhaps ask social services to provide additional cover.

 

I hope that she is soon transferred to a suitable facility and receives good treatment.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Jomie