Gormenghast Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 24 minutes ago, Palomar said: God is eternal, it's right there in the job description. A job description that was written by men, thousands of years ago, to to subdue the masses and keep them in line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palomar Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, Hecate said: So is Henry Kissinger, apparently, but I don't believe he popped up unbidden out of the aether and created the universe either. Well, maybe the former. Such a shame Christopher Hitchens didn't get his wish of outliving him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThaBoom Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Hecate said: That isn't faith though, is it? Faith maintains that ultimately God did it. The essence of science is acknowledging that we don't know, and being endlessly curious about finding out. And if you're going to believe in a supernatural explanation, which creation myth are you going to go for? There are plenty to choose from. Who's right? How are you going to find out? Where did God come from? Not necessarily, faith isn't just that 'God did it' but it could be the most rational explanation- once you have deeply studied/ looked at other possibilities- none which hit the mark. That isn't even a question- its like asking "who is the bachelor married to?" If God was created then He wouldn't be God, He would also be dependent- and you cannot have a infinite regress of dependents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palomar Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 18 minutes ago, ThaBoom said: Not necessarily, faith isn't just that 'God did it' but it could be the most rational explanation- once you have deeply studied/ looked at other possibilities- none which hit the mark. That isn't even a question- its like asking "who is the bachelor married to?" If God was created then He wouldn't be God, He would also be dependent- and you cannot have a infinite regress of dependents. The Big Bang (or some future refinement) and evolution hit the mark very well. Language games such as 'something cannot come from nothing', and 'you cannot have an infinite regress of dependents' just show up the inadequacy of language to talk about a universe made of quantum fields and superposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, ThaBoom said: Not necessarily, faith isn't just that 'God did it' but it could be the most rational explanation- once you have deeply studied/ looked at other possibilities- none which hit the mark. That isn't even a question- its like asking "who is the bachelor married to?" If God was created then He wouldn't be God, He would also be dependent- and you cannot have a infinite regress of dependents. If you've deeply studied the proposed ideas, found them wanting and consequently rejected them then fair play to you because I can't get my head around most of it. But because I don't have the maths to get a proper understanding of it all that doesn't mean that I'm going to substitute a supernatural alternative to fill the void. Edited June 4, 2023 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Bynnol Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 1 hour ago, ThaBoom said: Not necessarily, faith isn't just that 'God did it' but it could be the most rational explanation- once you have deeply studied/ looked at other possibilities- none which hit the mark. That isn't even a question- its like asking "who is the bachelor married to?" If God was created then He wouldn't be God, He would also be dependent- and you cannot have a infinite regress of dependents. As you have not "... deeply studied/ looked at other possibilities..." and since you are not conversant with the advances in all aspects of science and understanding(nobody has) then your personal views that "- none which hit the mark" are yours alone. Your quaint philosophical arguments might give you justification but hold no water in a mathematical universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThaBoom Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) 23 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said: As you have not "... deeply studied/ looked at other possibilities..." and since you are not conversant with the advances in all aspects of science and understanding(nobody has) then your personal views that "- none which hit the mark" are yours alone. Your quaint philosophical arguments might give you justification but hold no water in a mathematical universe. Oh give over...unless you can show me any scientific evidence where something can come out of NOTHING- we mean nothing/ zero.. no mass, atoms, matter. Secondly, the fact the Universe is intelligible, proves it was created! You couldn't derive anything if it was total chaos. I'll add, most of your posts hardly make sense half of the time- like cryptic language 😆 So excuse me if I don't bother responding Edited June 5, 2023 by ThaBoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trastrick Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, ThaBoom said: Oh give over...unless you can show me any scientific evidence where something can come out of NOTHING- we mean nothing/ zero.. no mass, atoms, matter. Secondly, the fact the Universe is intelligible, proves it was created! You couldn't derive anything if it was total chaos. I'll add, most of your posts hardly make sense half of the time- like cryptic language 😆 So excuse me if I don't bother responding It all comes down to which miracles you choose to believe! Everything suddenly coming from nothing, and what happened, "a millionth of a billionth, of a billionth, of a billionth of a second" - BBC, after some Big Bang! Or 12 loaves and fishes feeding a multitude, and some guy from Argentina called Jorge Mario Bergoglio (aka "Pope"), claiming to talk to God, while living in abject luxury surrounded by servants in his own palace! Edited June 5, 2023 by trastrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Bynnol Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 13 minutes ago, ThaBoom said: Oh give over...unless you can show me any scientific evidence where something can come out of NOTHING- we mean nothing/ zero.. no mass, atoms, matter. Secondly, the fact the Universe is intelligible, proves it was created! You couldn't derive anything if it was total chaos. I'll add, most of your posts hardly make sense half of the time- like cryptic language 😆 So excuse me if I don't bother responding You repeat your view that science says that "...something can come out of NOTHING", science does not say or suggest that. Try again. You forgot energy. The 'Universe' is becoming more intelligible ever day and nothing except the human mind has been observed that suggest the involvement of a god. Your understanding of 'chaos' and 'chaotic systems' needs upgrading. Attractive and repelling forces exist within chaotic systems and energy will transfer will be at work resulting in structure. A faith is a must if come up with a deduction like "Universe is intelligible, proves it was created". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) Much as I appreciate the contribution that science has made to the world, scientists have been known to be wrong on occasion - lots of occasions actually. In fact they're well known for contradicting not only each other, but themselves from time to time. 'Science' is not the infallible 'truth' that some people seem to think it is. Much of it is speculation and unproven theory. Edited June 5, 2023 by Anna B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now