''The war on men''

[leviathan13]

I can't really understand why someone already close to maternity leave would be applying for different roles internally, seems like an odd thing to do.

 

It was the grade above, so more money.

 

Get the extra cash without having to work for a few months.

[Branyy]

Not what I said.

 

I said you have to prove that women have more sick days, do less hours and are less flexible.

And then prove that this isn't a societal construct that forces them to behave like that because their husbands (in the case that they have them) are expected to be more flexible, to not take time out for a sick child, to not take the child to the doctors, etc...

 

Google searches don't prove anything, if you search for "why the earth is flat" you'll find plenty of links explaining to you why it's so. Mac33 hasn't followed a link yet that he didn't believe. Flat earth, fake moon landing, chem trails, elvis not dead, roswell aliens, and so on.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=off&ei=ypmNWuzVDMfPgAaM8bjADQ&q=the+patriarchy+and+mysoginy&oq=the+patriarchy+and+mysoginy&gs_l=psy-ab.3...11678.22606.0.22819.33.29.2.2.2.0.205.3454.12j14j2.28.0..2..0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.24.2881...0j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i131i67k1j0i131k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1j33i160k1.0.haICylH_4wk

 

I've already given you the proper study (on overtimes). Why do you ignore it?

[Mister M]

I will keep trying mel don't you worry fella, I have always worked in male dominated workplaces so I know all about men having sickies for various reasons, I have also seen men working when they are so unwell they were causing a danger to themselves and others over the years, so what ?

 

This link here gives a few articles that suggest women do have more sick days than men, there are some giving certain reasons why that might be but the articles are out there non the less, any comment ?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?dcr=0&source=hp&ei=dLmNWrbbGomcgAaJ56aIDw&q=women+have+more+sick+days+than+men&oq=women+have+more+sick+days+than+men&gs_l=psy-ab.3...6495.6495.0.7424.2.1.0.0.0.0.86.86.1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.0.0.0...0.5BCqHRALu2U

 

I've read the article first on the Google page you linked, from the Telegraph.

I'm not sure why you think that women taking on average 5 sick days a year, compared to men wo take fewer than four constitutes evidence that there is a 'war on men'.

As you say the article gives various reasons for this. Reading between the lines, I get the impression that a lot of men (and possibly women in a very competitive environment), will be reluctant to take time off due to social pressures.

However pitting men against women in the 'who has it hardest, women or men' helps no-one.

The male suicide rate is three times higher than it is for women (though I remember reading that women are three times more likely to attempt suicide). I think it would be more productive if more boys were socialised into accepting that it is not weak, and there is nothing wrong in opening up, asking for help, and taking time off; rather than trying to soldier on valiantly.

[Cyclone]

I've already given you the proper study (on overtimes). Why do you ignore it?

 

I didn't ignore it, I'm not arguing against it because it's almost certainly true.

I did however mention social reasons that men and women behave differently.

 

Edit - and as Mister M said above, none of this proves that there is some kind of "war on men", I don't think we've had a jot of evidence for it so far. At best the people who think there is, have reframed the discussion argue that women have achieved equality and that further efforts to make things equal are actually the WOM.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Cyclone

[leviathan13]

I didn't ignore it, I'm not arguing against it because it's almost certainly true.

I did however mention social reasons that men and women behave differently.

 

Edit - and as Mister M said above, none of this proves that there is some kind of "war on men", I don't think we've had a jot of evidence for it so far. At best the people who think there is, have reframed the discussion argue that women have achieved equality and that further efforts to make things equal are actually the WOM.

 

So men and women are different... but the same?

[Cyclone]

Equality of opportunity, no discrimination is not the same as every single person, or indeed men and women actually being equal in every measurable characteristic.

Perhaps you for example have blonde hair, I have dark hair. We aren't the same.

You wouldn't expect to be paid less because of your hair colour though, or to have a job be given to me instead of you because of hair colour (which in case it's not obvious has no bearing on performing the job).

[Phanerothyme]

How do you feel about a women wanting equal pay and then expecting men to pay on dates, and to provide for them generally....

 

I would feel that those women wouldn't be my type.

 

I've always let women pay, provide for me generally etc. Worked out fine so far.

 

Just helping to smash the patriarchy, in my own small way.

[barleycorn]

In the news yesterday

Originally Posted by Cyclone

In the news yesterday

 

46% of employers agreed it was reasonable to ask women if they have young children during the recruitment process

44% agree women should work for an organisation for at least a year before deciding to have children

About one third believe that women who become pregnant and new mothers in work are "generally less interested in career progression"

41% of employers agreed that pregnancy in the workplace puts "an unnecessary cost burden" on the workplace

51% agree there is sometimes resentment towards women who are pregnant or on maternity leave

 

Oh, I bet it's much higher than that. I imagine that those surveyed were either HR pros or just gave the politically correct answer, not the real one.

 

Women make different life choices. That is absolutely fine.

 

This is an odd one because, when you think on it, it is actually an inequality against men which, if removed, would help change attitudes to pregnancy, child birth, maternity leave and raising children in the work place. That inequality is the the disparity between maternity leave and paternity leave.

If men were allowed as much time off as women, on equal terms and the uptake was encouraged then, over time, attitudes would change. It would no longer be a case of (mainly male) bosses seeing women taking time off to have children in a negative light because men would be doing it in equal measure. Women wouldn't be falling behind in pay and promotions due to time off for maternity leave etc because men would be doing it in equal number.

Throw in free childcare from the age of one and Bobs your uncle.

[leviathan13]

Equality of opportunity, no discrimination is not the same as every single person, or indeed men and women actually being equal in every measurable characteristic.

Perhaps you for example have blonde hair, I have dark hair. We aren't the same.

You wouldn't expect to be paid less because of your hair colour though, or to have a job be given to me instead of you because of hair colour (which in case it's not obvious has no bearing on performing the job).

 

Someone has been in a job for 5 years, never been off sick and someone has worked there a year and taken half of that off due to maternity/paternity leave.

 

The levels of experience are vastly different due to the amount of time in the role.

 

Why should someone inexperienced receive the same level of pay as a more experienced member of staff? Why do they deserve the ssme level of opportunity?

[Waldo]

This is an odd one because, when you think on it, it is actually an inequality against men which, if removed, would help change attitudes to pregnancy, child birth, maternity leave and raising children in the work place. That inequality is the the disparity between maternity leave and paternity leave.

If men were allowed as much time off as women, on equal terms and the uptake was encouraged then, over time, attitudes would change. It would no longer be a case of (mainly male) bosses seeing women taking time off to have children in a negative light because men would be doing it in equal measure. Women wouldn't be falling behind in pay and promotions due to time off for maternity leave etc because men would be doing it in equal number.

Throw in free childcare from the age of one and Bobs your uncle.

 

Let's not pretend that's a fair system; why should people who don't (choose to, or can't) have kids, subsidise those who do?