''The war on men''

[Michael_W]

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle...

 

You tell me, is it ?

[Cyclone]

I don't need to google things I already know, I thought I would throw you a line, and just as I suspected, you have revealed yourself once again to be an 'expert' with no actual experience of your own, you really do typify the average SJW fella, come back and big yourself up when you have worn the T-shirt at least, I have got you sussed Mr. Educated and slightly more aware

 

You've lost me. You asked for information you could easily find, I provided it.

You then claim you didn't need it, and somehow you think you've scored a point or something.

You're just making yourself look stupid.

 

If you want to say something about shared parental leave and the very low uptake of it, then go ahead...

[Michael_W]

You've lost me. You asked for information you could easily find, I provided it.

You then claim you didn't need it, and somehow you think you've scored a point or something.

You're just making yourself look stupid.

 

If you want to say something about shared parental leave and the very low uptake of it, then go ahead...

 

I was fishing to see if you had any first hand knowledge of shared parental leave, seeing as you more or less claimed that not sharing was 'damaging and restraining', clearly your in no position to make such claims as you have no experience, you just read stuff to try and make out that your not stupid

 

I have no issue with people having opinions because they read stuff, generally, but it seems in most arguments on here that like many other SJWs that is all you have ..... brainwashed mantra !

Edited March 11, 2018 by Michael_W

[Cyclone]

I didn't claim any, and would have answered if you'd simply asked.

So having ascertained that I haven't, how do you think that's relevant to this topic?

 

I'm having to explain basic English to you here, but my claim was that the macho culture is damaging in that it prevents men from using the available shared parental leave.

I don't try to make out that I'm not stupid, but you seem to be going to some pains to prove that you are.

 

Did you not read the quote?

EMW suggested low take-up was partly due to the cultural stigma for men of taking time off work and concerns that they might come across as less committed to their job if they ask for leave.

It has terrible uptake amongst men though, presumably due to the culture we're talking about, the machismo, the perception that men should work and women should look after children.

This is a damaging and restraining thing for both men and women, denying or at least reducing the freedom that should see more men taking parental leave and less women.

 

The machismo culture restrains men from utilising the leave available and this is damaging to equality for both men and women. It really wasn't a complex statement the first time I made it.

 

---------- Post added 11-03-2018 at 18:07 ----------

 

That inequality is the the disparity between maternity leave and paternity leave.

 

And if you were so conversant with the shared leave situation, why didn't you correct barleycorn in his misapprehension about the inequality of leave?

[mort]

The bickering and name calling can stop right now. If it starts up again I will be issuing suspensions.

[Ontarian1981]

Halibut has pulled a blinder with this thread, the reactionaries are arguing among themselves.

 

He was fishing and he got a lot of bites

[Michael_W]

I didn't claim any, and would have answered if you'd simply asked.

So having ascertained that I haven't, how do you think that's relevant to this topic?

 

I'm having to explain basic English to you here, but my claim was that the macho culture is damaging in that it prevents men from using the available shared parental leave.

I don't try to make out that I'm not stupid, but you seem to be going to some pains to prove that you are.

 

Did you not read the quote?

 

It has terrible uptake amongst men though, presumably due to the culture we're talking about, the machismo, the perception that men should work and women should look after children.

This is a damaging and restraining thing for both men and women, denying or at least reducing the freedom that should see more men taking parental leave and less women.

 

The machismo culture restrains men from utilising the leave available and this is damaging to equality for both men and women. It really wasn't a complex statement the first time I made it.

 

---------- Post added 11-03-2018 at 18:07 ----------

 

 

And if you were so conversant with the shared leave situation, why didn't you correct barleycorn in his misapprehension about the inequality of leave?

 

The inequality of leave is not just down to machismo culture though is it, there are plenty of women that choose to be the ones who take leave, so pinning it squarely on macho culture is just the sort of liberal nonsense I would expect from certain people, many of whom have not really experienced having their own children and taking maternal/paternal/shared leave.

You and your ilk are simply feeding off the statistics and information given by those highlighting the socialist/leftist/feminist driven agendas, just because you and your Uni educated chums think it's 'right on' does not mean everyone else does.

Women do have choices and have had them for a long time, specifically with regards to careers and raising a family, society simply can't bend over backwards to guarantee them everything they want. Despite having never had so many choices some have already chosen to play the victim, they tend to be young educated feminists many of whom have actually experienced little of life's challenges yet, so they are hardly in a position to dictate the rights and wrongs to the rest of us, you seem to fall into that category and that is why it is relevant to this topic IMHO.

[barleycorn]

I should stop you there.

Parental leave is now a shared thing, to be agreed between a couple.

It has terrible uptake amongst men though, presumably due to the culture we're talking about, the machismo, the perception that men should work and women should look after children.

This is a damaging and restraining thing for both men and women, denying or at least reducing the freedom that should see more men taking parental leave and less women.

You misunderstand. Paternity leave is two weeks and maternity leave is up to 52 weeks (39 weeks paid). What you have referenced is shared parental leave which is a different kettle of fish and is nothing more than a cop out to save having to actually make real effective changes. For true equality both parents would be entitled to 52 weeks leave which is not the case with SPL.

[Robin-H]

You misunderstand. Paternity leave is two weeks and maternity leave is up to 52 weeks (39 weeks paid). What you have referenced is shared parental leave which is a different kettle of fish and is nothing more than a cop out to save having to actually make real effective changes. For true equality both parents would be entitled to 52 weeks leave which is not the case with SPL.

 

I'm not sure why you think Cyclone misunderstands?

 

He said 'parental leave is now a shared thing'. This is true isn't it? I don't think anyone has claimed that both parents now get up to 52 weeks leave.

 

I'm not sure it would be feasible to offer both parents 52 weeks leave. This would be even more generous than Sweden, which I think currently has the most generous parental leave in the world.

 

We could take a lesson from Sweden however to incentivise Dad's taking leave, as they have an exclusive right to 90 days, and it used to be the case (it may well still be) that the total allowance was reduced if they didn't take it.

[barleycorn]

He misunderstands my point because paternity leave is not the same as maternity leave and neither are the same as shared parental leave.