El Cid Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 What has yesterday's accident at Barns Green got to do with the disputes over Driver Only Operation currently going on? Guards deal with incidents on a daily basis, many non-rail users will be unsure of their duties, they have to sell tickets, inspect for correct tickets, dealing with drunken behaviour on the many 'ale runs', assisting people with disabilities and getting a ramp when needed and many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Library Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Guards deal with incidents on a daily basis, many non-rail users will be unsure of their duties, they have to sell tickets, inspect for correct tickets, dealing with drunken behaviour on the many 'ale runs', assisting people with disabilities and getting a ramp when needed and many more. I know what duties guards have and I am all in favour of all trains having a second safety critical member of staff on board. What has yesterday's incident got to do with this, however? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 I know what duties guards have and I am all in favour of all trains having a second safety critical member of staff on board. What has yesterday's incident got to do with this, however? It is just an example of an incident where a guard may be required to deal with various things, in some instances it can be very traumatic for the driver and the passengers need to be kept on the train for safety reasons, trains can be stationary for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Library Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) It is just an example of an incident where a guard may be required to deal with various things, in some instances it can be very traumatic for the driver and the passengers need to be kept on the train for safety reasons, trains can be stationary for a long time. But not in yesterday's incident, as it was a driver only operated service . I agree that the presence of a guard should be of massive benefit in such incidents, not only in dealing with the passengers and driver but also in protecting the train and communicating with the emergency services. In this instance the driver seems to have been physically unharmed, but that is by no means always the case, and he/she might easily have been traumatised and incapable of doing a great deal. I fear, however, that the fight to retain a second safety critical member of staff on trains has been lost. After all, the rot set in 35 years ago when the first driver only service started between St Pancras and Bedford. Edited February 18, 2018 by Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 I fear, however, that the fight to retain a second safety critical member of staff on trains has been lost. After all, the rot set in 35 years ago when the first driver only service started between St Pancras and Bedford. It often make business sense to have 2 employees on a train. A train 'decoupled' last week, on its way into Leeds Station - causing major delays to services. Read more at: https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mayhem-at-leeds-station-as-train-splits-in-two-1-9006706 Those delays would cost the operator millions because of fines that they have to pay when trains are late. I believe cost cutting was an issue, but not 2 staff members on the train. I am told the train operator has recently tried to save money on maintenance, and its cost them dearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 It often make business sense to have 2 employees on a train. A train 'decoupled' last week, on its way into Leeds Station - causing major delays to services. Read more at: https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mayhem-at-leeds-station-as-train-splits-in-two-1-9006706 Those delays would cost the operator millions because of fines that they have to pay when trains are late. I believe cost cutting was an issue, but not 2 staff members on the train. I am told the train operator has recently tried to save money on maintenance, and its cost them dearly. OK - so tell me how two employees on the train helps there? Surely you are not expecting them to push the two havles back together again and do the couplings back up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Why on earth would a guard have helped in this? Two people dealing with a train vs one person dealing with a train - regardless they are always going to be overwhelmed. If ASLEF carry on this way they will end up with noone driving at all - the DLR manages a good job and doesnt go on strike all the time... Maybe the person who actually drove the train into a vehicle and people died as a result isn’t going to function very well in the aftermath. I think that’s the point being made. At least a guard would have not experienced that and could in theory cope better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 Maybe the person who actually drove the train into a vehicle and people died as a result isn’t going to function very well in the aftermath. I think that’s the point being made. At least a guard would have not experienced that and could in theory cope better. It does seem that Obelix does not like guards! ---------- Post added 19-02-2018 at 10:50 ---------- OK - so tell me how two employees on the train helps there? Surely you are not expecting them to push the two havles back together again and do the couplings back up? It was an example of a company trying to save money, that ended up costing them more. I believe guards do have some responsibility in regard to couplings, but I don't know what happened in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 It does seem that Obelix does not like guards! Where have I said that? Well? I've said nothing on that particular emotion at all. You've decided to latch onto for your own purposes. Do not ascribe thoughts or emotions to me that are clearly not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I’d rather have a train with a guard on it but.... Are there any stats on the safety aspects. Are there more injuries or deaths on driver-only trains? What about revenue for train companies, is that affected? For example if after factoring in collection of fares the cost of guards is neutral then surely better to keep them? How many services get cancelled because of guard shortages? Any data on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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