Disabled woman ‘left to die’

[onewheeldave]

 

 

 

As for your comments about the accessing of care and the POSSIBILITY of it contributing to mental health issues I have no doubt that you could be correct. But you don't know for sure in this case that it is, do you?

 

 

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Just as you don't know for sure that it isn't. Yet you insist on us all waiting for an official 'investigation' which would primarily act as a stalling tactic, that would ultimately simply perpetuate the systemic abuse of vulnerable people which is now rife.

 

 

You clearly know all about this situation, please, from the article could you extract all the facts for us to undertake an INFORMED debate about what has gone horribly wrong here. Did the 18 care agencies refuse to work with this woman over a period of several days or 18 years? What was the abuse she gave? Was she saying racist things or perhaps threatening to have peoples families murdered? If she made such a threat would it be reasonable to assume that she might have a way of carrying out? What are the exact details please around the withdrawal of care. Why was no alternative care available in the period between care being withdrawn and this woman going to hospital. What is the opinion of the medical staff at the Hospital where she spent her last few days? had she been assessed for mental health issues? The truth is I don't have the answers to any of the questions and I am of course just making most of these things up to prove the point that we have little or no idea of the facts surrounding this terrible situation.

 

 

 

 

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I know there's no end of questions (most not actually relevant) that can be come up with to create an extended debate which can stall action until everyone gets distracted by the next horrific round of abuse, which will then be dealt with in the same way (i.e. not at all).

 

Bear in mind this is taking place in the context of widespread systemic abuse of vulnerable people due to a totally broken care system- we all know this is just one case out of thousands.

 

Shutting people up on the grounds of 'wait for an official investigation to conclude' is simply a causal mechanism by which these systems get to continue being not fit for purpose, and continue the abuse. IMO.

[Olive]

Trying to keep people in their homes, which aren't always suitable, with a variety of carers seems to be the preferred option nowadays. It must be cheaper, but in cases where there is no family support, and a person is obviously not coping, surely a care facility, or in some cases a hospice would be better. It's appalling that she was left with no support, regardless of her mental state.

 

My mum had several strokes, we lived hundreds of miles away, and although it's a horrible choice to make I at least knew she was fed and warm, rather than isolated and without help. As she became frailer physically and mentally, she moved to a nursing home where she was well cared for and I was there when she died peacefully.

 

You've got to wonder haven't you. Residential care facilities are expensive, but is the whole cost of caring for people in a home setting really taken into account? How can it possibly be cheaper for people to be visited 4 or 5 times a day with the associated travel and time. Each person having to heat and maintain a whole property, maybe rent a whole house or flat. Each person having to be individually cooked for.

 

There comes a point when people are unable to get up, dress themselves, go to the toilet, feed themselves, and they are still kept at home, waiting for the next visit. I'd hate to lose my independence and be put in a residential home, but then again I wouldn't much appreciate being alone and waiting for the next visitor to come and sit me up in bed or make me a cup of tea.

[melthebell]

You're saying she may have mental health problems, but, you don't know that do you?

Of course i dont, im niether her nor know her

 

HOWEVER

 

those experts that work with her, should know, and if so their should be additional measures in place to deal with her.

[Ms Macbeth]

Precisely Olive. Dementia can make some people quite a danger to themselves and others. Difficult to manage too I suspect. Should they be left to fend for themselves too?

[Fogey]

Just as you don't know for sure that it isn't. Yet you insist on us all waiting for an official 'investigation' which would primarily act as a stalling tactic, that would ultimately simply perpetuate the systemic abuse of vulnerable people which is now rife.

 

I know there's no end of questions (most not actually relevant) that can be come up with to create an extended debate which can stall action until everyone gets distracted by the next horrific round of abuse, which will then be dealt with in the same way (i.e. not at all).

 

Bear in mind this is taking place in the context of widespread systemic abuse of vulnerable people due to a totally broken care system- we all know this is just one case out of thousands.

 

Shutting people up on the grounds of 'wait for an official investigation to conclude' is simply a causal mechanism by which these systems get to continue being not fit for purpose, and continue the abuse. IMO.

 

Ok, don't wait for the official investigation, go forth and VERIFY your claims for yourself. feel free to report back to the forum when you have some reasonably substantiated claims about what ACTUALLY happened in this awful case rather than whatever vision is running through your imagination. What's the problem with asking people not to jump to conclusions on the basis of little or no information?

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 13:38 ----------

 

Of course i dont, im niether her nor know her

 

HOWEVER

 

those experts that work with her, should know, and if so their should be additional measures in place to deal with her.

 

You are almost certainly correct. Someone should know, but I don't see any evidence or even a direct claim of what actually happened in the article.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 13:46 ----------

 

Precisely Olive. Dementia can make some people quite a danger to themselves and others. Difficult to manage too I suspect. Should they be left to fend for themselves too?

 

Since everybody here seems to be attacking me for wanting to actually know more (God forbid anyone should want to get to the real story), I will assume this little swipe is also aimed at me.

 

Dementia is an awful condition. nobody with dementia should be left to fend for themselves and having seen first hand the kind of difficulties that can be encountered in getting even the most basic of help I am unhappy to say that the support is too difficult to access.

 

In this case though, - IN THIS CASE, is their any mention of this poor lady suffering from dementia or any other form of mental health issue or is everyone just assuming that is the case because it fits with the vision they have cooked up in their minds?

 

Does nobody else find it disturbing that in a case involving horrible suffering and death the one person on this forum asking to know more before drawing conclusions is being attacked?

 

It's no wonder we don't make progress in matters like this, all you people ever want is someone to tear to pieces, whether they're responsible or not.

[Olive]

Since everybody here seems to be attacking me for wanting to actually know more (God forbid anyone should want to get to the real story), I will assume this little swipe is also aimed at me.

 

Dementia is an awful condition. nobody with dementia should be left to fend for themselves and having seen first hand the kind of difficulties that can be encountered in getting even the most basic of help I am unhappy to say that the support is too difficult to access.

 

In this case though, - IN THIS CASE, is their any mention of this poor lady suffering from dementia or any other form of mental health issue or is everyone just assuming that is the case because it fits with the vision they have cooked up in their minds?

 

Does nobody else find it disturbing that in a case involving horrible suffering and death the one person on this forum asking to know more before drawing conclusions is being attacked?

 

It's no wonder we don't make progress in matters like this, all you people ever want is someone to tear to pieces, whether they're responsible or not.

 

Ms MacBeth and I are simply questioning the dogma that home care is always preferable and more cost effective than residential care. That is all.

[Itrytoplease]

Irrespective of having or not having a mental illness, Irrespective of the alleged abuse she said, Irrespective of who cancelled her care, the fact remains 1 - She was left on her own with no support. 2 - The council has a duty of care, no matter what! She was let down.

[Ms Macbeth]

Ms MacBeth and I are simply questioning the dogma that home care is always preferable and more cost effective than residential care. That is all.

 

Well yes, I thought we were having a discussion, not 'attacking' or 'swiping' at anyone.

 

Pleased to see the local authority have instigated an urgent enquiry into why the care was withdrawn. I hope the findings are made public.

[Fogey]

Ms MacBeth and I are simply questioning the dogma that home care is always preferable and more cost effective than residential care. That is all.

 

I apologise for my presumption.

[Olive]

No worries, easy to get caught up in a busy discussion