Disabled woman ‘left to die’

[Ms Macbeth]

Trying to keep people in their homes, which aren't always suitable, with a variety of carers seems to be the preferred option nowadays. It must be cheaper, but in cases where there is no family support, and a person is obviously not coping, surely a care facility, or in some cases a hospice would be better. It's appalling that she was left with no support, regardless of her mental state.

 

My mum had several strokes, we lived hundreds of miles away, and although it's a horrible choice to make I at least knew she was fed and warm, rather than isolated and without help. As she became frailer physically and mentally, she moved to a nursing home where she was well cared for and I was there when she died peacefully.

[Fogey]

Being abusive can be a symptom of having poor mental health, just cutting off all contact is NOT an answer.

 

You're saying she may have mental health problems, but, you don't know that do you?

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:14 ----------

 

From what i read was, she was alone for five days before she died.

 

I can't see where it says she was alone for 5 days before she died. You're filling in the blanks without knowing the facts. Why don't you wait for the outcome of the investigation rather than jumping to conclusions based on very little information?

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:17 ----------

 

Aye she will have been in tip top mental health, you know, dying and all that

 

But again, you don't actually know, do you? well do you? You're just assuming on the basis of very little information, jumping to a half formed conclusion.

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:20 ----------

 

Regardless of the circumstances, the local authority had a statutory duty to provide care. There is no get-out clause, the duty remains whatever the circumstances. I've worked with people with a wide range of needs all my life and had to deal with all sorts of stuff. There was one guy whose necrotic leg ulcer needed dressing everyday, and which was done to an accompanying volley of vile verbal abuse. I didn't refuse to do it, I just had to think about what had brought him to that point in his life and be grateful those things hadn't happened to me, whilst reminding him that he shouldn't swear at people and that I was helping him. There is no excuse for leaving people to die.

 

That is very noble of you and you should be applauded for your commitment. But, you have absolutely no right to tell other people they should put up with abuse because it suits you that they should. If you choose to do so then it is your choice.

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:24 ----------

 

I agree. When I was nursing I saw nurses physically attacked by old people with dementia. One even had her jaw broken but when a person is mentally ill there’s nothing you can do about it.

 

Again, it doesn't say there was any mention of any kind of mental health issue at all. I could be missing it, if it's there please correct me.

 

Why are so many of you jumping to conclusions regarding key pieces of information which are missing?

 

if you don't know the circumstances why are you so quick to judge or jump to a conclusion?

[Anna B]

Sadly, she isn't the first, and certainly won't be the last by a long way.

 

We seem to have lost the capacity to care in this country. We see people such as these who are in desperate need as nothing more than an expensive nuisance. Yet any one of us could end up in her predicament.

 

Private nursing homes are not obliged to take them, and Council run ones are becoming rarer than hens teeth, hospitals are full, so where does that leave us? There is nothing to plug the gap. Even the Victorians had the workhouse.

 

I find it hard to believe sometimes how, in the 21st Century, our standards have fallen so low. We need decent care facilities run by decent caring people, for those who have no one.

[Bob Arctor]

 

That is very noble of you and you should be applauded for your commitment. But, you have absolutely no right to tell other people they should put up with abuse because it suits you that they should. If you choose to do so then it is your choice.

 

 

It's not very noble, it's based on simple compassion and understanding, something you would think people working in social care might have. I grew up when people had thicker skins and didn't have this mania for judging people. I am also entitled to point out that councils have a statutory duty that can't be avoided, whether anyone else wants to hear that or not.

[Itrytoplease]

You're saying she may have mental health problems, but, you don't know that do you?

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:14 ----------

 

 

I can't see where it says she was alone for 5 days before she died. You're filling in the blanks without knowing the facts. Why don't you wait for the outcome of the investigation rather than jumping to conclusions based on very little information?

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:17 ----------

 

 

But again, you don't actually know, do you? well do you? You're just assuming on the basis of very little information, jumping to a half formed conclusion.

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:20 ----------

 

 

That is very noble of you and you should be applauded for your commitment. But, you have absolutely no right to tell other people they should put up with abuse because it suits you that they should. If you choose to do so then it is your choice.

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:24 ----------

 

 

Again, it doesn't say there was any mention of any kind of mental health issue at all. I could be missing it, if it's there please correct me.

 

Why are so many of you jumping to conclusions regarding key pieces of information which are missing?

 

if you don't know the circumstances why are you so quick to judge or jump to a conclusion?

 

Your all Heart. Do you own a care home?

[Fogey]

Your all Heart. Do you own a care home?

 

So you’re going to start attacking me because I have pointed out that there are a lot of completely unsubstantiated claims and assumptions being made, and because I’m asking people to wait for more information before breaking out the pitch forks and looking for someone to burn at the stake.

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 19:34 ----------

 

It's not very noble, it's based on simple compassion and understanding, something you would think people working in social care might have. I grew up when people had thicker skins and didn't have this mania for judging people. I am also entitled to point out that councils have a statutory duty that can't be avoided, whether anyone else wants to hear that or not.

 

Im sorry to have tried to celebrate your worthy humanity.

[cressida]

If I'd known about her neglect I'd have contacted my vicar who moved to that area a couple of years ago, he has great leadership qualities and would have managed to sort it out.

[mickey finn]

You're saying she may have mental health problems, but, you don't know that do you?

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:14 ----------

 

 

I can't see where it says she was alone for 5 days before she died. You're filling in the blanks without knowing the facts. Why don't you wait for the outcome of the investigation rather than jumping to conclusions based on very little information?

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:17 ----------

 

 

But again, you don't actually know, do you? well do you? You're just assuming on the basis of very little information, jumping to a half formed conclusion.

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:20 ----------

 

 

That is very noble of you and you should be applauded for your commitment. But, you have absolutely no right to tell other people they should put up with abuse because it suits you that they should. If you choose to do so then it is your choice.

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 17:24 ----------

 

 

Again, it doesn't say there was any mention of any kind of mental health issue at all. I could be missing it, if it's there please correct me.

 

Why are so many of you jumping to conclusions regarding key pieces of information which are missing?

 

if you don't know the circumstances why are you so quick to judge or jump to a conclusion?

 

You seem to know a lot about the situation, maybe you should get some legal representation.

[onewheeldave]

 

I can't see where it says she was alone for 5 days before she died. You're filling in the blanks without knowing the facts. Why don't you wait for the outcome of the investigation rather than jumping to conclusions based on very little information?

 

I think people are tired of watching the most vulnerable in our society being let down to the point that they die, while the systems responsible react by conducting another 'investigation' which generally leads to no actual progress, but takes so long that the public and media have forgotten about the tragedy by the time the investigation gets completed.

 

I think people have cottoned on to the fact that it's very much in the best interests of abusive systems, if people can be convinced to stay out of it until 'the investigation is complete'.

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 22:47 ----------

 

You're saying she may have mental health problems, but, you don't know that do you?

 

You've mentioned she was abusive to workers. Being abusive is one sign of less than ideal mental health.

 

She was terminally ill, and, having to access modern 'support' systems, which, if you are not financially very well off, are overly bureaucratic, grossly underfunded, and, in terms of offering support for extremely vulnerable people, not fit for purpose.

 

Having to deal with such organisations, is itself, often damaging to mental health.

[Fogey]

You seem to know a lot about the situation, maybe you should get some legal representation.

 

Take a breath and wipe the froth from your mouth. I have simply pointed out quite the opposite to what you are claiming here, which is that in this case we all know very little for sure and some are filling in the blanks with made up assumptions.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2018 at 08:52 ----------

 

I think people are tired of watching the most vulnerable in our society being let down to the point that they die, while the systems responsible react by conducting another 'investigation' which generally leads to no actual progress, but takes so long that the public and media have forgotten about the tragedy by the time the investigation gets completed.

 

I think people have cottoned on to the fact that it's very much in the best interests of abusive systems, if people can be convinced to stay out of it until 'the investigation is complete'.

 

---------- Post added 21-02-2018 at 22:47 ----------

 

 

You've mentioned she was abusive to workers. Being abusive is one sign of less than ideal mental health.

 

She was terminally ill, and, having to access modern 'support' systems, which, if you are not financially very well off, are overly bureaucratic, grossly underfunded, and, in terms of offering support for extremely vulnerable people, not fit for purpose.

 

Having to deal with such organisations, is itself, often damaging to mental health.

 

You clearly know all about this situation, please, from the article could you extract all the facts for us to undertake an INFORMED debate about what has gone horribly wrong here. Did the 18 care agencies refuse to work with this woman over a period of several days or 18 years? What was the abuse she gave? Was she saying racist things or perhaps threatening to have peoples families murdered? If she made such a threat would it be reasonable to assume that she might have a way of carrying out? What are the exact details please around the withdrawal of care. Why was no alternative care available in the period between care being withdrawn and this woman going to hospital. What is the opinion of the medical staff at the Hospital where she spent her last few days? had she been assessed for mental health issues? The truth is I don't have the answers to any of the questions and I am of course just making most of these things up to prove the point that we have little or no idea of the facts surrounding this terrible situation.

 

As for your comments about the accessing of care and the POSSIBILITY of it contributing to mental health issues I have no doubt that you could be correct. But you don't know for sure in this case that it is, do you?

 

If we continue to simply fly off at the handle without any real facts or information then what will eventually happen is the real facts will be obscured by the blind baying for blood, the real situation and problems won't be identified. Because they won't be identified they won't be dealt with.

 

If you want to conduct this discussion in the spirit of querying and wondering what has happened, searching for and offering up further information from other possible sources, and trying to actually identify what actually went wrong then I'm all for it.

 

What many here are actually doing is jumping to a series of conclusions, assumptions and accusations that may or may not be correct on the basis of assumed unsubstantiated facts that may or may not be correct.