Why do we need a god?

[leviathan13]

God is a construct used to make the believer feel better about the suffering and complexity that is existence. If people need that then let them get on with it. No one has all the answers, we all have some kind of belief system/faith. Faith that you will continue to be able to exist and do what you do now when you have no way of knowing whether that is true.

 

But 'faith' can only take you so far. I can have all the faith I want in living a long, full life... but if I stuff my face with bacon, chips and beer for the rest of my life, no amount of faith and praying to a higher being is going to help me.

 

What faith in religion does is removes much of the responsibility from the person. It's easy to say 'it's God's will' when something hasn't happened to you.

 

I'm happy and content in the knowledge that there are no souls, spirits and an afterlife. I get my time on this planet and, when I go, it's a space for someone else to have their moment. I don't need anything else to look forward to after.

 

On Richard Dawkins' scale, where he's a 6, I place myself firmly at 7, and I'm happy with that.

[TimmyR]

But 'faith' can only take you so far. I can have all the faith I want in living a long, full life... but if I stuff my face with bacon, chips and beer for the rest of my life, no amount of faith and praying to a higher being is going to help me.

 

What faith in religion does is removes much of the responsibility from the person. It's easy to say 'it's God's will' when something hasn't happened to you.

 

I'm happy and content in the knowledge that there are no souls, spirits and an afterlife. I get my time on this planet and, when I go, it's a space for someone else to have their moment. I don't need anything else to look forward to after.

 

On Richard Dawkins' scale, where he's a 6, I place myself firmly at 7, and I'm happy with that.

 

Faith that a person will live a long and full life will give reassurance and comfort while alive. It won't stop a premature death, it can't, but it gives comfort and reassurance and that is the point. We need something to believe in because without it we only have nihilism and no one is happy in that state. My main point is, people have religion because they need something with structure and meaning. Religion provides them with that and we shouldn't begrudge them that. You help no one by presenting a list of logically reasoned statements why god can't exist.

Edited May 16, 2018 by TimmyR

[RootsBooster]

I attended the funerals of three friends last year and one (so far) this year. Of these guys only one had any religious commitment, I go with the flow at these occasions, some folk need to hope, so what’s the harm in that?

 

People having hope isn't a problem, that's only one minute part of religion though. People cutting body parts off their children, people brainwashing their children to believe certain things, amongst many other issues, they're the problems.

 

---------- Post added 16-05-2018 at 13:47 ----------

 

Faith that a person will live a long and full life will give reassurance and comfort while alive. It won't stop a premature death, it can't, but it gives comfort and reassurance and that is the point. We need something to believe in because without it we only have nihilism and no one is happy in that state. My main point is, people have religion because they need something with structure and meaning. Religion provides them with that and we shouldn't begrudge them that. You help no one by presenting a list of logically reasoned statements why god can't exist.

 

Firstly, I would say only some people need something to believe in (if we're talking about the supernatural, inc. gods, the afterlife, etc.)

 

Secondly, why would there only be nihilism if people don't believe in the supernatural? I don't have any such beliefs but I'm not strictly a nihilist, as far as I'm concerned life is what you make it.

 

Thirdly, why would people be unhappy with nihilism?

(It would depend on your definition of nihilism I suppose)

Edited May 16, 2018 by RootsBooster

[apelike]

We need something to believe in because without it we only have nihilism and no one is happy in that state.

 

Not true. I and I'm sure many others don't believe in any religion, are not nihilistic and yet are very happy. I don't begrudge anyone who wants to have a faith and believe in religion. I just don't like the way it seems to propagate myths and tries to make out that their way is the only true way of living. All the time there is more than one God then the whole substance of religion is meaningless as then the question becomes.. which one is the real God?

[TimmyR]

People having hope isn't a problem, that's only one minute part of religion though. People cutting body parts off their children, people brainwashing their children to believe certain things, amongst many other issues, they're the problems.

 

---------- Post added 16-05-2018 at 13:47 ----------

 

 

Firstly, I would say only some people need something to believe in (if we're talking about the supernatural, inc. gods, the afterlife, etc.)

 

Secondly, why would there only be nihilism if people don't believe in the supernatural? I don't have any such beliefs but I'm not strictly a nihilist, as far as I'm concerned life is what you make it.

 

Thirdly, why would people be unhappy with nihilism?

(It would depend on your definition of nihilism I suppose)

 

I'm not talking about the supernatural, gods afterlife etc, I'm saying we all have some kind of belief system. We need structure to our lives, some kind of purpose. I sincerely doubt many people who consider themselves to be happy are going through their lives considering everything to be pointless. For example, I believe that by giving a little back in my local community that life will generally improve for me and for others. I believe that if everyone did this, we'd all have better lives. I'm not doing this because some God told me to but it is nonetheless part of my belief system (somebody somewhere will probably have told me to however, most likely my mother when I was a child). I think that having some kind of structure and purpose is a basic requirement of humanity. Without it humans are left with nothing to strive for and I don't see how anyone could be happy in that state

 

 

re you first comment. Brainwashing, cuttings body parts, other evil are not only a part of religion. Humans are inherently evil, we all have the capability to do wrong in certain circumstances. Comments like "all religions should banned" (not yours I know) are totally ill-considered. You can't state that we should rid ourselves of religion. What I'm eluding to above is that I think really we all have some aspects of religion in our lives. Nobody knows all the facts, we have to have beliefs to make sense of the world.

Edited May 16, 2018 by TimmyR

[Robin-H]

I'm not talking about the supernatural, gods afterlife etc, I'm saying we all have some kind of belief system. We need structure to our lives, some kind of purpose. I sincerely doubt many people who consider themselves to be happy are going through their lives considering everything to be pointless. For example, I believe that by giving a little back in my local community that life will generally improve for me and for others. I believe that if everyone did this, we'd all have better lives. I'm not doing this because some God told me to but it is nonetheless part of my belief system (somebody somewhere will probably have told me to however, most likely my mother when I was a child). I think that having some kind of structure and purpose is a basic requirement of humanity. Without it humans are left with nothing to strive for and I don't see how anyone could be happy in that state

 

 

re you first comment. Brainwashing, cuttings body parts, other evil are not only a part of religion. Humans are inherently evil, we all have the capability to do wrong in certain circumstances. Comments like "all religions should banned" (not yours I know) are totally ill-considered. You can't state that we should rid ourselves of religion. What I'm eluding to above is that I think really we all have some aspects of religion in our lives. Nobody knows all the facts, we have to have beliefs to make sense of the world.

 

Nonsense. Evil is a subjective term that wouldn't exist without humanity's definition of right and wrong.

[TimmyR]

Nonsense. Evil is a subjective term that wouldn't exist without humanity's definition of right and wrong.

 

Exactly, so we are all capable of performing actions which are categorised by the belief system in which we live as wrong. The point is, we all have a belief system, either provided by religion or by society or family influences or whatever.

[AlexAtkin]

Which basically sums up the thread as no, we DON'T need a god!

 

We just need humility, morals and compassion.

 

The big issue with religion is that in far too many cases it breeds inequality, as it allows people to be happy living in worse conditions than other people when there is really no reason why that should be the case if we all work together.

 

You might argue "if they are happy, does it matter?", but when it results in certain groups dying earlier than others. I do not believe we should be okay with that.

Edited May 16, 2018 by AlexAtkin

[RootsBooster]

I'm not talking about the supernatural, gods afterlife etc, I'm saying we all have some kind of belief system. We need structure to our lives, some kind of purpose. I sincerely doubt many people who consider themselves to be happy are going through their lives considering everything to be pointless. For example, I believe that by giving a little back in my local community that life will generally improve for me and for others. I believe that if everyone did this, we'd all have better lives. I'm not doing this because some God told me to but it is nonetheless part of my belief system (somebody somewhere will probably have told me to however, most likely my mother when I was a child). I think that having some kind of structure and purpose is a basic requirement of humanity. Without it humans are left with nothing to strive for and I don't see how anyone could be happy in that state

I don't think your beliefs constitute a belief system, let alone something comparable to a religion.

 

re you first comment. Brainwashing, cuttings body parts, other evil are not only a part of religion. Humans are inherently evil, we all have the capability to do wrong in certain circumstances. Comments like "all religions should banned" (not yours I know) are totally ill-considered. You can't state that we should rid ourselves of religion. What I'm eluding to above is that I think really we all have some aspects of religion in our lives. Nobody knows all the facts, we have to have beliefs to make sense of the world.

Of course they're not only part of a religion, but religions condone and in some cases demand such things. You can't compare an institution to an individual.

 

---------- Post added 16-05-2018 at 15:34 ----------

 

Exactly, so we are all capable of performing actions which are categorised by the belief system in which we live as wrong. The point is, we all have a belief system, either provided by religion or by society or family influences or whatever.

I think you're conflating 'belief systems' with common values and standards

[johnlittle]

Although now quite old "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" by Weber is still worth a read and partly explains why and how inequality in wealth came to be justified in a world where God was important. Also Hobbes' view of a naturally brutal and primitive mankind, which needed

'The State' to govern, regulate and civilise it. The growth of wealth, individualism and neoliberalism plus the decline of some social aspects of how we used to live, such as respect for religion, good family values etc, which provided the mortar between the bricks of society, have led to our present state whereby some need a god to get them through whilst others don't. Sadly, we have been dismantling the State and governance alongside the loss of the stabilising beliefs and values which, in my view, is the cause of many present ills in society. We are unlikely to achieve fully altruistic humanitarianism in the disparate global world and so many turn to their belief in some sort of deity as an explanation and comfort.

Having been raised in the protestant ethic I find it now hard to contemplate a God and feel that biology and science will eventually provide an explanation of how and why we exist should we survive that far. I would hope that all we can do until then is try our best to be kind to one another whether we believe in a deity or not. Sadly, I often fail in this myself.