Why do we need a god?

[ENG601PM]

Although now quite old "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" by Weber is still worth a read and partly explains why and how inequality in wealth came to be justified in a world where God was important. Also Hobbes' view of a naturally brutal and primitive mankind, which needed

'The State' to govern, regulate and civilise it. The growth of wealth, individualism and neoliberalism plus the decline of some social aspects of how we used to live, such as respect for religion, good family values etc, which provided the mortar between the bricks of society, have led to our present state whereby some need a god to get them through whilst others don't. Sadly, we have been dismantling the State and governance alongside the loss of the stabilising beliefs and values which, in my view, is the cause of many present ills in society. We are unlikely to achieve fully altruistic humanitarianism in the disparate global world and so many turn to their belief in some sort of deity as an explanation and comfort.

Having been raised in the protestant ethic I find it now hard to contemplate a God and feel that biology and science will eventually provide an explanation of how and why we exist should we survive that far. I would hope that all we can do until then is try our best to be kind to one another whether we believe in a deity or not. Sadly, I often fail in this myself.

 

Ruskin's 7 Lamps provides a more uplifting (if equally detached from reality) approach don't you think?

[TimmyR]

I don't think your beliefs constitute a belief system, let alone something comparable to a religion.

 

 

Our beliefs are heavily influenced by our experiences. A belief system is merely a collection of inter-related beliefs. In my case being raised by middle class CND supporters, I was raised, brainwashed, however you want to look at it, to have relatively left wing views (a belief system). I have since formed my own opinions on many issues but I doubt I will ever fully move away from the belief system of my youth. A religion includes a belief system and that influences the beliefs of the individual. I'm not suggesting we all have religion, but that we seek certain things that religion provides: some rules by which to live our lives (beliefs) without which we live in permanent turmoil, a purpose, a sense of belonging.

 

I'm also not sure I see the relevance of certain religions condoning bad things. There are non-religious institutions that condone bad things. There are religious institutions that do not. The question is why do people need a god? My answer is that all people need the things I mention above and a god/religion can provide that. Non-religious people still need those things or they will not cope with existence.

Edited May 17, 2018 by TimmyR

[apelike]

The question is why do people need a god? My answer is that all people need the things I mention above and a god/religion can provide that. Non-religious people still need those things or they will not cope with existence.

 

I can quite happily exist and cope with existence without those things as I have faith in myself and I don't need the clutter, may others can cope also. Why is it hard for you to understand that?

[TimmyR]

I can quite happily exist and cope with existence without those things as I have faith in myself and I don't need the clutter, may others can cope also. Why is it hard for you to understand that?

 

So you don't have any beliefs? And you don't feel like you belong? And you don't feel like you have a purpose? You believe that everything is totally pointless, you are a true nihilist. Notwithstanding all of the above you are happy and can cope?

 

Can I just re-iterate, at no point have I said that all people need religion which i fear is an assumption you have made. Please re-read my posts if so.

Edited May 17, 2018 by TimmyR

[leviathan13]

So you don't have any beliefs? And you don't feel like you belong? And you don't feel like you have a purpose? You believe that everything is totally pointless, you are a true nihilist. Notwithstanding all of the above you are happy and can cope?

 

Can I just re-iterate, at no point have I said that all people need religion which i fear is an assumption you have made. Please re-read my posts if so.

 

In the greater scheme of things, there really is no 'point' to life. We're born, we live, we die... and whilst you're in the ground or a pile of ashes in an urn, everything you've worked for, your family and friends, your possessions and fond memories mean nothing to you. There is no 'meaning of life'.

 

However, that doesn't mean that we haven't given a purpose to being alive. So even though none of it truly matters, while we're here we might as well do something with our time. Unfortunately someone invented religion as a moral compass, but we never truly needed religion to help us live and work together and become a society because, as with all animals, there is an inherent understanding that community increases the chances of survival. So when the religious claim that without God we'd descend in to savagery... we really wouldn't because we managed to survive and build community and relationships before God was invented.

[TimmyR]

In the greater scheme of things, there really is no 'point' to life. We're born, we live, we die... and whilst you're in the ground or a pile of ashes in an urn, everything you've worked for, your family and friends, your possessions and fond memories mean nothing to you. There is no 'meaning of life'.

 

However, that doesn't mean that we haven't given a purpose to being alive. So even though none of it truly matters, while we're here we might as well do something with our time. Unfortunately someone invented religion as a moral compass, but we never truly needed religion to help us live and work together and become a society because, as with all animals, there is an inherent understanding that community increases the chances of survival. So when the religious claim that without God we'd descend in to savagery... we really wouldn't because we managed to survive and build community and relationships before God was invented.

 

That's exactly my point. There is no real meaning, everything IS pointless, but what is also true is that humans need to create some meaning and purpose otherwise life isn't good. Religion for some does this. For everyone else, meaning, purpose, morals etc need to come from somewhere and humans need to create those things. So I return to my original statement that there are aspects of religion in everyone's life (maybe not the god part, or unquestioning faith part, but there is the system of beliefs, the sense of belonging, the purpose because without that we only have nihilism and that is not a philosophy that results in a cohesive and functioning society.

Edited May 17, 2018 by TimmyR

[SnailyBoy]

That's exactly my point. There is no real meaning, everyone IS pointless, but what is also true is that humans need to create some meaning and purpose otherwise life isn't good. Religion for some does this. For everyone else, meaning, purpose, morals etc need to come from somewhere and humans need to create those things. So I return to my original statement that there are aspects of religion in everyone's life (maybe not the god part, or unquestioning faith part, but there is the system of beliefs, the sense of belonging, the purpose because without that we only have nihilism and that is not a philosophy that results in a cohesive and functioning society.

 

Where do you get your morals from?

 

I guess it would also help if you defined what you mean when you say something is moral.

[TimmyR]

Where do you get your morals from?

 

read my posts above.

[SnailyBoy]

read my posts above.

 

I have, how do you decide if something is moral?

[leviathan13]

That's exactly my point. There is no real meaning, everything IS pointless, but what is also true is that humans need to create some meaning and purpose otherwise life isn't good. Religion for some does this. For everyone else, meaning, purpose, morals etc need to come from somewhere and humans need to create those things. So I return to my original statement that there are aspects of religion in everyone's life (maybe not the god part, or unquestioning faith part, but there is the system of beliefs, the sense of belonging, the purpose because without that we only have nihilism and that is not a philosophy that results in a cohesive and functioning society.

 

And some use religion as a way to upset another person's journey through this life.

 

And the purpose for many religious people is to use life as a test to ensure a better afterlife. Their purpose isn't to enjoy this life, it's to enjoy death. So if the taking of another life ensures they have a better afterlife, how does that help towards a cohesive and functioning society?