Bus vs Tram from Hillsborough into City..

[Guest]

What happened to the 82 this morning?

 

I was at Hillsborough waiting for either the 81 or 82 to take me up to Stannington. It was just after 9 and the 81 arrived, but I decided to wait for my preferred 82...but it didn't come.

 

Eventually another 81 came so I got on that. As I was sat on it a double decker bus, which I presume was the 82, went zooming past along Home Lane towards Stannington but with "sorry out of service" on it.

[BigAl1]

SYPTE are not in charge of this trial neither do they own the new tram trains or have any say in their operation or timetabling.

SYPTE can probably be charged with naïvety because they belived what they were being told by Network Rail and reported it in the media.

 

 

 

They cannot and are not to be held responsible for the delay and cost overrun of the trial yet you persist on at least two threads on blaming SYPTE when the National Audit Commission report puts the non-research blame on Network Rail.

 

Supertram and Network Rail have already written the timetable for the Tram Trains route to Parkgate. This impacts all other routes.

There is currently a twelve minute frequency on the Yellow route to Meadowhall. This will become a 7-8 minute frequency between Cathedral and Meadowhall South.

 

The three Tram Trains will probable be used to replace Supertrams undergoing heavy maintenance in rotation as they increasingly age.

 

I am not saying anything about the introduction of the service to Rotherham as you rightly say this is down to the incompetence of Notwork Rail I am talking about the delayed introduction of the tram trains on the tram network whilst they were waiting for Notwork Rail to finish the works on the link and the use of the 3 extra trams that were bought

 

Once again you refer to the audit commission now unless there is a more detail report than the one I have read I do not recall seeing anything in it about the delayed introduction of these 7 trams to the EXISTING TRAM network whilst awaiting the completion of the network rail work. Could you please provide me with the relevant paragraphs from the report.

 

You may be right that network rail prevented the trams running on the existing tram network but perhaps SYPTE and or Stagecoach should have been upfront with the public and correct their press releases so sorry they are just as guilty in my opinion

 

 

At least you confirm that the 3 extra trams are unlikely to be used for the purpose we were told they were being purchased for which I have long suspected

[Hook]

I am not saying anything about the introduction of the service to Rotherham as you rightly say this is down to the incompetence of Notwork Rail I am talking about the delayed introduction of the tram trains on the tram network whilst they were waiting for Notwork Rail to finish the works on the link and the use of the 3 extra trams that were bought

 

Once again you refer to the audit commission now unless there is a more detail report than the one I have read I do not recall seeing anything in it about the delayed introduction of these 7 trams to the EXISTING TRAM network whilst awaiting the completion of the network rail work. Could you please provide me with the relevant paragraphs from the report.

 

You may be right that network rail prevented the trams running on the existing tram network but perhaps SYPTE and or Stagecoach should have been upfront with the public and correct their press releases so sorry they are just as guilty in my opinion

 

 

At least you confirm that the 3 extra trams are unlikely to be used for the purpose we were told they were being purchased for which I have long suspected

 

 

Try reading this: https://www.sypte.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Corporate/Projects_and_Awards/TRAM%20TRAIN%20FAQ_September%202017_final.pdf. It has accurate and update timescales from SYPTE as you would expect with a TRIAL.

[BigAl1]

Try reading this: https://www.sypte.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Corporate/Projects_and_Awards/TRAM%20TRAIN%20FAQ_September%202017_final.pdf. It has accurate and update timescales from SYPTE as you would expect with a TRIAL.

 

Thank you I have not seen this before and not sure where it might have been published

 

However does not answer some of the other questions I have raised but I am sure Annie will do so.

 

But in the meantime I have written to the audit commission asking them when they next report back to examine the issue of the delays to the tram trains on the tram network separately from the issue of the opening of the new infrastructure and into the reasons for the purchase and subsequent use of the 3 extra tram not required for the trial (although of course would be valuable in the event of one of the units failing)

[Annie Bynnol]

All seven trams are part of the trial and will remain so until the end of the trial. Repair, maintenance and other costs are paid for by the trial.

 

The three tram trains with Supertram wheelsets will be still being trialed- they are not "spare" to the trial. At the end of the trial a decision will be made about the future of the route and the tram trains. They may stay as tram trains, adapted to become basic trams, be used elsewhere or scrapped.

 

During the trial four of the seven will have tram train wheelsets and three will have Supertram wheelsets. There will be a rotation of all seven tram trains.

In the event that modification are needed, some or all of the tram trains will need to be withdrawn- as happened last month.

Stagecoach Supertram cannot therefore rely on the availability of three extra vehicles. As the tram trains to Parkgate have to be punctual to 30 seconds on NR the number of movement of all vehicles cannot be increased between Park Square and Cathedral.

 

This is why it is a trial and will remain so until the final report is published.

 

What you have shown quite clearly is that nobody should trust Government ministers or Network Rail- including the SYPTE media.

The Government has already been advised by its own civil servants to end the trial -twice.

[Hook]

Thank you I have not seen this before and not sure where it might have been published

 

However does not answer some of the other questions I have raised but I am sure Annie will do so.

 

But in the meantime I have written to the audit commission asking them when they next report back to examine the issue of the delays to the tram trains on the tram network separately from the issue of the opening of the new infrastructure and into the reasons for the purchase and subsequent use of the 3 extra tram not required for the trial (although of course would be valuable in the event of one of the units failing)

 

 

 

But there are extra services as part of the new timetable?

[BigAl1]

But there are extra services as part of the new timetable?

 

Now you have me cause we had a 10 minute frequency in the peak and we still have a 10 minute frequency. Unfortunately I do not have the old time table with me to go into the checking now

[Hook]

Now you have me cause we had a 10 minute frequency in the peak and we still have a 10 minute frequency. Unfortunately I do not have the old time table with me to go into the checking now

 

This has been explained to you before.

 

The frequency is the same but more teams are required to run them.

 

In order to improve the reliability of the service there are greater layover times at terminus, for example 10 minutes at middlewood and 6 at Meadowhall. This requires more trans during peak and off peak. There are therefore more trams and more services in operation.

 

This has clearly worked - in the last week of the old timetable there were 135 service cancellations in the first week of the new timetable there were 21. This didn’t happen by accident but because there are more teams out there in service.

 

Increasing the frequency of trams would not have improved the timetable. It is he recovery time at terminus which allows a late running tram to still depart on time which makes the new timetable so much better.

 

This has been explained before though, so I don’t expect you to understand it.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Hook

[BigAl1]

Very interesting concept, We are going to get more trams in the peak because we will cancel less of them.

 

Still waiting for Annie to provide the relevant sections from the audit commission but living in hope

 

Pity that cancellation and punctuality data is not made public to the same extent as on the railways - surprisingly even the PTE claim not to have it when asked under FOI for the data by route and peak off peak

[Hook]

Very interesting concept, We are going to get more trams in the peak because we will cancel less of them.

 

Once again you twist everything being said and ignore the facts. Good luck on your personal crusade.