£11 for 15 minutes of Care..

[Obelix]

Hairstyles apart, I've seen many a documentary on the modern day health service, and they're none too flattering.

 

So?

 

Your assertion was that things were much better in the 1970's. I've shown you evidence from a well regarded and researched source that it was not. Your assertion is therefore flawed and no amount of misdirection will change that fact.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2018 at 21:45 ----------

 

So you weren't there... so you don't really know do you?

 

I'm fairly certain that you were not around for WW1 and also didn't personally witness oooh I dunno the Hiroshima bomb but I'm certain you wouldnt try to say they didnt exist.

[Anna B]

So?

 

Your assertion was that things were much better in the 1970's. I've shown you evidence from a well regarded and researched source that it was not. Your assertion is therefore flawed and no amount of misdirection will change that fact.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2018 at 21:45 ----------

 

 

I'm fairly certain that you were not around for WW1 and also didn't personally witness oooh I dunno the Hiroshima bomb but I'm certain you wouldnt try to say they didnt exist.

 

What evidence was that? I must have missed it...

 

We've been through this many many times... evidence /statistics can be found to support any position.

[Robin-H]

What evidence was that? I must have missed it...

 

We've been through this many many times... evidence /statistics can be found to support any position.

 

I've also provided evidence. Perhaps you missed that too.

 

You could also look into all the other things I mentioned.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2018 at 22:37 ----------

 

What evidence was that? I must have missed it...

 

We've been through this many many times... evidence /statistics can be found to support any position.

 

This is such a nonsensical position.

 

There is such a thing called weight of evidence. Yes, somebody could write something that wasn't backed up by any other evidence, and somebody could quote that as evidence. It wouldn't stand up to scrutiny however, and so would be quickly dismissed.

 

Evidence and statistics matter. They really do.

[Anna B]

I've also provided evidence. Perhaps you missed that too.

 

You could also look into all the other things I mentioned.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2018 at 22:37 ----------

 

 

This is such a nonsensical position.

 

There is such a thing called weight of evidence. Yes, somebody could write something that wasn't backed up by any other evidence, and somebody could quote that as evidence. It wouldn't stand up to scrutiny however, and so would be quickly dismissed.

 

Evidence and statistics matter. They really do.

 

A paper from 1998? You have got to be joking.

 

Have you any idea of how much things have changed in the past 20 years - particularly the last 10 years since the crash? We are now in the era of Tory 'Austerity?' and a deliberate purge on the disadvantaged and disabled.

 

Try something a bit more up to date from the United Nations.

 

https://dpac.uk.net/2016/11/the-united-nations-report-into-the-uk-government-maltreatment-of-disabled-people-has-been-published/

[Obelix]

What evidence was that? I must have missed it...

 

We've been through this many many times... evidence /statistics can be found to support any position.

 

Ah the cherrypicking fallacy.....

 

You dont get to choose the statistics you want Anna - unless you want the same argument right back at you...

[Robin-H]

A paper from 1998? You have got to be joking.

 

Have you any idea of how much things have changed in the past 20 years - particularly the last 10 years since the crash? We are now in the era of Tory 'Austerity?' and a deliberate purge on the disadvantaged and disabled.

 

Try something a bit more up to date from the United Nations.

 

https://dpac.uk.net/2016/11/the-united-nations-report-into-the-uk-government-maltreatment-of-disabled-people-has-been-published/

 

Oh so evidence and statistics suddenly matter now? Funny that!

 

As for the date of the report I published - I am aware it is quite old, however it goes into the significant changes in access and amounts of benefits that disabled people are able to receive since the 1970s to the late 1990s.

 

Further research will tell you whether the levels of these now are below the levels of the 1970s (hint - they are not).

[ECCOnoob]

A paper from 1998? You have got to be joking.

 

Have you any idea of how much things have changed in the past 20 years- particularly the last 10 years since the crash? We are now in the era of Tory 'Austerity?' and a deliberate purge on the disadvantaged and disabled.

 

Try something a bit more up to date from the United Nations.

 

https://dpac.uk.net/2016/11/the-united-nations-report-into-the-uk-government-maltreatment-of-disabled-people-has-been-published/

 

Blimey, that's rich from someone who is harping on about how much better things were in the 70s.

 

Why dont you address some of the points raised several times now.

 

Population growth has increased dramatically. Life expectancy has increased dramatically. The range and extent of services expected (even demanded) free of charge from the NHS has increased dramatically. The developments in treatment, medication, lifestyle choices and society have changed dramatically.

 

It all has to be paid for and your predictable shtick of "tax the rich" and "greedy bankers" just does not cut it.

 

Something has to give and rose tinted visions of the so called glory days does nothing to sort out the problem.

 

I say it again. Not enough going in. Too much being taken out.

 

Try all you want but you can't seriously place all that problem on the so called "tax avoiding rich".

[Obelix]

A paper from 1998? You have got to be joking.

 

Have you any idea of how much things have changed in the past 20 years - particularly the last 10 years since the crash? We are now in the era of Tory 'Austerity?' and a deliberate purge on the disadvantaged and disabled.

 

Try something a bit more up to date from the United Nations.

 

No we wont. Remember Anna we've been through this many many times... evidence /statistics can be found to support any position.

 

Your EXACT words - within the last hours. Remember them? Your UN report is worthless.

[truman]

So you weren't there... so you don't really know do you?

 

Measure all you like, one of the things you can't quantify is peace of mind. And that makes all the difference. Life these days has turned into a lottery. People are frightened for the future.

 

You hoped you wouldn't need it but in the past if the worst happened you always knew help was at hand and you would be taken care of, and that made all the difference.

 

Nowadays, be unlucky enough to get Dementia, you are going to lose all your savings and your home. Can't afford to buy a house? Say goodbye to security, you are at the mercy of a Landlord. Need an operation? Well that depends on which Health Authority you come under and whether or not you qualify. Need help? Go whistle for it, it's no longer there unless you can afford to pay for it.

 

And believe it or not, because the help was freely there, people were more self reliant. They took pride in not needing help and standing on their own two feet.

That changed in the 80s. A mixture of unemployment, inequality and bitterness meant that they grabbed what they could get off the government, who (after 3 terms of Toryism and Margaret Thatcher,) they felt had betrayed them. That divide still exists today with people more polarised than ever.

If you're unlucky enough to get dementia these days it usually means you're lucky enough to have lived to a reasonable age...

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2018 at 23:25 ----------

 

What evidence was that? I must have missed it...

 

We've been through this many many times... evidence /statistics can be found to support any position.

 

Even the evidence and stats you supply?

[onewheeldave]

Try something a bit more up to date from the United Nations.

 

https://dpac.uk.net/2016/11/the-united-nations-report-into-the-uk-government-maltreatment-of-disabled-people-has-been-published/

 

The conclusion of which was-

 

"Consequently, the Committee considers that there is reliable evidence that the threshold of grave or systematic violations of the rights of persons with disabilities has been met in the State party"

 

(State party referring to the UK govt), the report is downloadable from-

 

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/CRPD/Pages/InquiryProcedure.aspx

 

It's a damning report, I believe the UK is the only country to have been investigated by the UN for human rights abuses against the disabled?

 

In this country, in 2018, many disabled people are living in absolute fear of what is being done to them.