Russian Chemical Weapon attack in Salisbury

[melthebell]

It may be water soluble but in that case it would have a very limited lifespan after being exposed to water and would not be concentrated enough to cause the damage it allegedly has after a few days.

 

 

 

All a systemic poison means is that it poisons specific organs causing failure. It is not normal for anyone doing CPR to touch bare skin while doing chest compression, and as mouth to mouth is no longer taught or used how did he become poisoned? If this poison was administered the way it is claimed and was also diluted by the rain then how come the police officer attending was also badly contaminated. It may not be a localised poison but it should be fairly easy to determine where it mainly entered or contacted the body as that localised area will have higher levels of toxic residue present. The first line of investigation would be to take swabs from common contact areas and also mouth and nose and see where the biggest concentration occurs. That way you have a better picture of how it became administered. That must already have been done otherwise Porton Down would not have been able to confirms what the poison was.

 

 

 

No I am questioning the sequence of events leading up to the alleged poisoning as it seems that a lot of guesswork is being use to make a case. A lot of that simply does not add up and can easily be taken apart. Novichok may have been used but by whom simply cannot be determined and again is based on guesswork.

and all yours is based on guesswork too, you say it can be taken apart, yes if you incorrectly guess. You say because it is water soluble it wouldnt cause the illness it did, who says? you? are you a chemical expert? a lot of factors have to be taken into account, its not as cut and dried as you think

[apelike]

and all yours is based on guesswork too, you say it can be taken apart, yes if you incorrectly guess.

 

I look at it this way, would guesswork be allowable in a court of law as that means then reasonable doubt and would get chucked out.

 

You say because it is water soluble it wouldnt cause the illness it did, who says? you? are you a chemical expert? a lot of factors have to be taken into account, its not as cut and dried as you think

 

But I didnt say that did I..

[catpus]

Craig Murray:

As recently as 2016 Dr Robin Black, Head of the Detection Laboratory at the UK’s only chemical weapons facility at Porton Down, a former colleague of Dr David Kelly, published in an extremely prestigious scientific journal that the evidence for the existence of Novichoks was scant and their composition unknown.

(But Maybot and the Buffoon knew 'immediately what it was?)

 

In recent years, there has been much speculation that a fourth generation of nerve agents, ‘Novichoks’ (newcomer), was developed in Russia, beginning in the 1970s as part of the 'Foliant programme', with the aim of finding agents that would compromise defensive countermeasures. Information on these compounds has been sparse in the public domain, mostly originating from a dissident Russian military chemist, Vil Mirzayanov. (who relocated to the USA and published the formula.) No independent confirmation of the structures or the properties of such compounds has ever been published.

Robin Black. (2016) Development, Historical Use and Properties of Chemical Warfare Agents. Royal Society of Chemistry

The Scientific Advisory Board of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) has not recognized Novichoks as chemical weapons because it found scant evidence that they exist at all. The U.S. and the UK are both part of the organization and both agreed with this evaluation:

[The SAB] emphasised that the definition of toxic chemicals in the Convention would cover all potential candidate chemicals that might be utilised as chemical weapons. Regarding new toxic chemicals not listed in the Annex on Chemicals but which may nevertheless pose a risk to the Convention, the SAB makes reference to “Novichoks”. The name “Novichok” is used in a publication of a former Soviet scientist who reported investigating a new class of nerve agents suitable for use as binary chemical weapons. The SAB states that it has insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of “Novichoks”. (OPCW, 2013)

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/03/theresa-mays-novichok-claims-fall-apart/comments/page/2/

[Longcol]

Why don't you find out why he might think that?

 

Inability to distinguish between reliable sources of information and garbage is the usual problem.

 

I also think that it is because search engines don't differentiate - thus someone searching for "was 9/11 an inside job" would likely find the vast bulk of the results took them to conspiracy theory websites and conclude that most people thought it was an inside job.

 

I remember back in the early days of SF a debate about mobile phone masts and how we were all going to die of radiation or similar and that there were hundreds of websites with evidence - yea - there were hundreds of websites but when you looked at bit further there was just one "scientific" source from a pretty poor survey done in Amsterdam.

[melthebell]

I look at it this way, would guesswork be allowable in a court of law as that means then reasonable doubt and would get chucked out.

 

 

 

But I didnt say that did I..

not far off

It may be water soluble but in that case it would have a very limited lifespan after being exposed to water and would not be concentrated enough to cause the damage it allegedly has after a few days.

[apelike]

not far off

 

Not far off is a gross exaggeration.

 

Strangely it seems the latest news about the door handle and rain also confirms this. To get the maximum effect and also poison the policeman later it is unlikely to have been administered that way.

[chalga]

Craig Murray:

As recently as 2016 Dr Robin Black, Head of the Detection Laboratory at the UK’s only chemical weapons facility at Porton Down, a former colleague of Dr David Kelly, published in an extremely prestigious scientific journal that the evidence for the existence of Novichoks was scant and their composition unknown.

(But Maybot and the Buffoon knew 'immediately what it was?)

 

In recent years, there has been much speculation that a fourth generation of nerve agents, ‘Novichoks’ (newcomer), was developed in Russia, beginning in the 1970s as part of the 'Foliant programme', with the aim of finding agents that would compromise defensive countermeasures. Information on these compounds has been sparse in the public domain, mostly originating from a dissident Russian military chemist, Vil Mirzayanov. (who relocated to the USA and published the formula.) No independent confirmation of the structures or the properties of such compounds has ever been published.

Robin Black. (2016) Development, Historical Use and Properties of Chemical Warfare Agents. Royal Society of Chemistry

The Scientific Advisory Board of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) has not recognized Novichoks as chemical weapons because it found scant evidence that they exist at all. The U.S. and the UK are both part of the organization and both agreed with this evaluation:

[The SAB] emphasised that the definition of toxic chemicals in the Convention would cover all potential candidate chemicals that might be utilised as chemical weapons. Regarding new toxic chemicals not listed in the Annex on Chemicals but which may nevertheless pose a risk to the Convention, the SAB makes reference to “Novichoks”. The name “Novichok” is used in a publication of a former Soviet scientist who reported investigating a new class of nerve agents suitable for use as binary chemical weapons. The SAB states that it has insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of “Novichoks”. (OPCW, 2013)

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/03/theresa-mays-novichok-claims-fall-apart/comments/page/2/

 

Lavrov also said the Swiss experts had found that the Skripals’ samples contained traces of A-234 – one of the nerve agents of the novichok group – “in its original form” and in considerable quantities.

 

 

The conclusions of British experts from the Porton Down laboratory that former GRU Colonel Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with the neuro-paralytic substance Novichok “cannot be questioned.” This is stated in the report of the Swiss Chemical Laboratory in Spiez, previously mentioned by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov when saying that the Skripals could have been with BZ gas.

 

 

https://en.crimerussia.com/gromkie-dela/swiss-laboratory-confirms-skripals-were-poisoned-with-novichok-gas/

Edited April 16, 2018 by chalga

[catpus]

Novichok used in spy poisoning, chemical weapons watchdog confirms

Says Patrick Wintour Diplomatic editor

The Guardian12 April 2018

The Skripals were found collapsed on a park bench in Salisbury, Wiltshire, on 4 March. A police officer, Det Sgt Nick Bailey, who was among the first at the scene, was also taken to hospital but discharged on 22 March.

The UK government’s position is that it is highly likely the Russian state targeted the Skripals with a nerve agent, which military experts at Porton Down identified as novichok.

 

Right.. Detective Constable Nick Bailey, was one of the 'first' on the scene...

So he didn't get 'it' from the door knob then? And what was a Detective doing 'at the scene?' Before they even knew what had happened to the Skripals. They could just have been two afternoon drunks? And WHAT DID happen to the actual first responders? Was it Nick who infected the Skripals?

 

No wonder his life will never be the same again. Mine wouldn't be either if I'd signed up for this fiasco, and thrown away a damn good job. He like the Skripals will never be seen again as Nick Bailey.

 

Oh no... It Wasn't Novichok!

Well there's a surprise, our wonderful Maybot and her Baboon accidentally forgot to tell us that the OPCW report - and the Swiss laboratory report - stated that the Salisbury nerve agent wasn't Novichok after all, it was BZ Toxin (aka 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate aka QNB aka Agent 15 aka Substance 78 aka etc etc etc).

 

BZ Toxin is much more associated with the USA and Europe and is NOT known as a Russian chemical.

Now how did our Government manage to overlook that?

 

Next we will be finding out that the Syrian chemical attack was sherbet!

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

[chalga]

Novichok used in spy poisoning, chemical weapons watchdog confirms

Says Patrick Wintour Diplomatic editor

The Guardian12 April 2018

The Skripals were found collapsed on a park bench in Salisbury, Wiltshire, on 4 March. A police officer, Det Sgt Nick Bailey, who was among the first at the scene, was also taken to hospital but discharged on 22 March.

The UK government’s position is that it is highly likely the Russian state targeted the Skripals with a nerve agent, which military experts at Porton Down identified as novichok.

 

Right.. Detective Constable Nick Bailey, was one of the 'first' on the scene...

So he didn't get 'it' from the door knob then? And what was a Detective doing 'at the scene?' Before they even knew what had happened to the Skripals. They could just have been two afternoon drunks? And WHAT DID happen to the actual first responders? Was it Nick who infected the Skripals?

 

No wonder his life will never be the same again. Mine wouldn't be either if I'd signed up for this fiasco, and thrown away a damn good job. He like the Skripals will never be seen again as Nick Bailey.

 

Oh no... It Wasn't Novichok!

Well there's a surprise, our wonderful Maybot and her Baboon accidentally forgot to tell us that the OPCW report - and the Swiss laboratory report - stated that the Salisbury nerve agent wasn't Novichok after all, it was BZ Toxin (aka 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate aka QNB aka Agent 15 aka Substance 78 aka etc etc etc).

 

BZ Toxin is much more associated with the USA and Europe and is NOT known as a Russian chemical.

Now how did our Government manage to overlook that?

 

Next we will be finding out that the Syrian chemical attack was sherbet!

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

 

Already debunked this fake news in my post.

[altus]

It is not normal for anyone doing CPR to touch bare skin while doing chest compression, and as mouth to mouth is no longer taught or used how did he become poisoned?

St John Ambulance think you're wrong.