Russian Chemical Weapon attack in Salisbury

[melthebell]

Governments are also still having problems trying to prove that Russian actually influenced the US election and also Brexit. This all seems to me to be very convenient and another attempt to smear Russia and Putin as the other stuff has not worked. Not forgetting that some in high places and with plenty of money don't like Trump or the fact we will Brexit.

yup thats the problem with secrecy, spying and spys, its all covert and hard to track. it doesnt mean it didnt happen tho.

and for 26 countries from large to small +nato to expel diplomats there must be more evidence than we are privvy to

[apelike]

Why do you think nothing else can be determined when you haven't see the evidence?

 

Neither have the press but they seem to just believe and print what they are told, look what happened with WMD in Iraq and the 45 minute warning. If the UK are certain then they should explain how they know and name who was responsible. Basically the UK are saying as it was made in Russia then it must be Russia that did it and that seems to be their only ploy. There are plenty of incidents where the security services have lied both here and in the USA and as said there seem to be a common effort to discredit Russia whether real or not. I think in a court of law there has to be beyond reasonable doubt but in this case there is plenty.

 

This is from the BBC:

 

Basically May is saying that as this was made in Russia that was enough to convince the EU that it was Russia that did it

[Obelix]

Neither have the press but they seem to just believe and print what they are told, look what happened with WMD in Iraq and the 45 minute warning. If the UK are certain then they should explain how they know and name who was responsible. Basically the UK are saying as it was made in Russia then it must be Russia that did it and that seems to be their only ploy. There are plenty of incidents where the security services have lied both here and in the USA and as said there seem to be a common effort to discredit Russia whether real or not. I think in a court of law there has to be beyond reasonable doubt but in this case there is plenty.

 

This is from the BBC:

 

Basically May is saying that as this was made in Russia that was enough to convince the EU that it was Russia that did it

 

The evidence for Russian guilt in this is quite possibly derived from sources such as agents in place, or from diplomatic or other traffic being read or broken. You don't show that to the press and let the enemy know that you have such people and assets in place now do you. It may well get spread around the five eyes though and that will be grade one gold plated proof but we will never see it.

[chalga]

We do not know what evidence has been shared, but it has been enough to convince almost everybody who has looked at it that it was the Russian state that ordered this attack.

 

Why do you think nothing else can be determined when you haven't see the evidence?

 

This is where the Conspiracy Theorists come in,they fill in the gaps with 'facts',simply because they don't know anything else,then start crying about government cover ups...........all it is is the modern equivalent of doorstep gossip,fact free and with a life of its own,according to which gossiper wants to embellish the story.

[apelike]

yup thats the problem with secrecy, spying and spys, its all covert and hard to track. it doesnt mean it didnt happen tho.

and for 26 countries from large to small +nato to expel diplomats there must be more evidence than we are privvy to

 

I'm not saying they are not responsible but again what does Russia gain from this knowing that this would be the outcome. Maybe there is an attempt by others to set up Putin and try and destabilise Russia, after all that is what the west are saying Russia has done to the USA and UK. The EU have a very anti Russia agenda and have for some time since the crisis in the Ukraine, which some believe was actually triggered by the EU as well.

 

---------- Post added 28-03-2018 at 17:23 ----------

 

The evidence for Russian guilt in this is quite possibly derived from sources such as agents in place, or from diplomatic or other traffic being read or broken. You don't show that to the press and let the enemy know that you have such people and assets in place now do you. It may well get spread around the five eyes though and that will be grade one gold plated proof but we will never see it.

 

Is that not how we knew that Iraq had WDM?

[melthebell]

I'm not saying they are not responsible but again what does Russia gain from this knowing that this would be the outcome. Maybe there is an attempt by others to set up Putin and try and destabilise Russia, after all that is what the west are saying Russia has done to the USA and UK. The EU have a very anti Russia agenda and have for some time since the crisis in the Ukraine, which some believe was actually triggered by the EU as well.

One theory which is opposite to what conspiracy theorists think which i read is that Russia made a massive mistake, not sure what theyd gain but they thought the UK, EU, and the US were all up to their eyeballs in stuff and far too divided to meet up on common ground. maybe they struck when they thought we were all weak and feeble

Edited March 28, 2018 by melthebell

[chalga]

One theory which is opposite to what conspiracy theorists think which i read is that Russia made a massive mistake, not sure what theyd gain but they thought the UK, EU, and the US were all up to their eyeballs in stuff and far too divided to meet up on common ground. maybe they struck when they thought we were all weak and feeble

 

That is spot on,the Kremlin operate on a divide and rule policy,and want to exploit anything they can,especially within the EU,they fear unity,which is why I want to extend my appreciation to all countries,in and out of Europe,who have responded to the UK position and kicked out the Russian diplomats,this is exactly what the Kremlin didn't want,so long may it continue.

[melthebell]

i suppose as well as the division they also gain one less former spy too?

[truman]

i suppose as well as the division they also gain one less former spy too?

 

As well as giving a rather potent warning to anyone else thinking of following Skirpal's example...it says "We acn do it and we don't care"

[catpus]

Neither have the press but they seem to just believe and print what they are told, look what happened with WMD in Iraq and the 45 minute warning. If the UK are certain then they should explain how they know and name who was responsible. Basically the UK are saying as it was made in Russia then it must be Russia that did it and that seems to be their only ploy. There are plenty of incidents where the security services have lied both here and in the USA and as said there seem to be a common effort to discredit Russia whether real or not. I think in a court of law there has to be beyond reasonable doubt but in this case there is plenty.

 

This is from the BBC:

 

Basically May is saying that as this was made in Russia that was enough to convince the EU that it was Russia that did it

 

It is pointless asking questions or writing sense Apelike. Three people on this thread have already decided who, what, when and where, despite there being absolutely no evidence what so ever other than what the CIA/MI6/MSM are spreading.

They can't even settle on the number poisoned. 10/20/150?

 

Among senior ministers and officials, there is quiet satisfaction that the Russia crisis seems to be going according to plan. Maybe even better.

According to one senior government source, "it's gone at least as well as we'd hoped".

That may end soon.

 

Whilst all the information posted below is not my actual words, it does contain MY questions, and some of My conclusions.

I don't see how this discussion can progress without the provision of proof.. which cannot come from our own opinions based on what the MSM tells us. Because it was proved with Iraq and Libya that they lie... We have no option but to look to alternative sources, and then make an evaluation?

 

The London Times reported on March 14th

Reported that 40 people in Salisbury needed treatment because of poisoning. A reader's letter to the paper written by "Steven Davies - Consultant in emergency medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust" disputes that report:

Sir,

Further to your report "Poison exposure leaves almost 40 needing treatment". May I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only been ever been three patients with significant poisoning."

The wording of the letter is not 100% clear. Does the "no patients" refer to only the 40 the Times mentioned. or to all patents including the Skripals? Are the three patients with "significant poisoning" the Skripals and the affected policeman?

Commentator Noirette had suggested here that the Skripal case was about food poisoning or a food allergy, not nerve agents.

Food poisoning would possibly explain why a doctor who gave emergency help to the unconscious Yulia Skripal for over 30 minutes was not effected at all.

I have yet to see a follow up on the letter by any media.

Why is there no interview with the doctor? All medical personal involved are astonishingly silent...

The UK has since folded on its unilateral demand outside of the OPCW procedures. It has now, as Russia demanded, involved the OPCW and OPCW specialist are expected to visit the British chemical weapon laboratory in Porton Down, which is near Salisbury, to investigate the case.

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/03/no-patients-have-experienced-symptoms-of-nerve-agent-poisoning-in-salisbury.html

 

Evening Standard.8th March 2018

Prime Minister reportedly told ministers to prepare for a powerful government response amid speculation that Russian president Vladimir Putin was behind the incident.

Detectives are still investigating whether the incident, which left a total of 21 people injured, was a state-sponsored attempted murder.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/russian-spy-poisoned-latest-amber-rudd-arrives-in-salisbury-as-theresa-may-orders-cabinet-to-prepare-a3785646.html

 

Mail Online 19th March 2018

Ex-Russian spy and daughter Yulia may have inhaled 'dust-like' form of Novichok

American officials said they had 'clearer picture' of how attack was orchestrated

They say powdered form of the substance was delivered through BMW air vents

It comes amid separate claims that Yulia, 33, was dating a Russian secret agent

Read more here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5516693/Russian-spy-Sergei-Skripal-poisoned-car-air-vents.html

 

Independent - 26th March 2018

More than 130 people could have been exposed to the military-grade nerve agent used in the attack on former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Theresa May has said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/salisbury-people-expose-nerve-agent-attack-theresa-may-a8275061.html

 

---------- Post added 28-03-2018 at 21:20 ----------

 

Daily Mail March 28th 2019

Skripal were poisoned with nerve agent left on their FRONT DOOR, police confirm

Metropolitan Police reveal high concentration of deadly nerve agent was found on Skripals' front door at their home in Salisbury

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5555641/Sergei-Yulia-Skripal-poisoned-nerve-agent-DOOR-police-confirm.html#ixzz5B4p4cRx1

Edited March 28, 2018 by catpus