Russian Chemical Weapon attack in Salisbury

[Marx]

What! Wait! Is there any other kind of government? It's just a question of degree...

 

If you feel Russia is a fairer more liberal democracy than the U.K., why are you still living in the U.K.?

 

Because your friends, family and employment is in the UK and you speak the language perhaps? Change from within? Taking your point to its conclusion, I should be living in Sweden.

[Waldo]

Most people the world over want to live quiet, peaceful lives with their families in their homes, and rubbing along with their neighbours.

 

So how come there are so many wars?

 

Wars are started by politicians and warmongers, not by ordinary people. But we are expected to believe their pretexts for going to war and in the past have done so unquestioningly.

 

However, now we have the means to dig a little deeper, to cross reference, to find information, to seek out the truth and question what we are told. This has often uncovered surprising results, often disturbing, sometimes deceitful, always complex, and rarely black and white. These are not all conspiracy theories.

 

Is it wrong to expect the politicians and warmongers to justify themselves thoroughly and with watertight reasoning, before committing the lives of millions of ordinary people to a fate worse than Hell?

 

I agree, people are led to war, but is the fault with those who lead or with those who follow? Without those who want to lead quiet lives, and are thus, easy to lead; there would be no one to do the fighting on behalf of the elites of this world.

 

The poor folk of each nation have much more in common with each other than with their respective leaders (whom invariably, it seems to me, act out of their own best interests).

 

I think there's a sensible middle ground though, between buying in to baseless conspiracy theories and blindly accepting everything our leaders say.

 

I know I'm somewhat biased, living in the UK and never visited Russia, but I would still think we have a far more fairer and liberal society than the Russians do.

 

---------- Post added 29-03-2018 at 10:53 ----------

 

Because your friends, family and employment is in the UK and you speak the language perhaps? Change from within? Taking your point to its conclusion, I should be living in Sweden.

 

Don't they have a big problem with immigration in Sweden? Increases in violent crime and rapes etc.

[catpus]

Most people the world over want to live quiet, peaceful lives with their families in their homes, and rubbing along with their neighbours.

 

So how come there are so many wars?

 

Wars are started by politicians and warmongers, not by ordinary people. But we are expected to believe their pretexts for going to war and in the past have done so unquestioningly.

 

However, now we have the means to dig a little deeper, to cross reference, to find information, to seek out the truth and question what we are told. This has often uncovered surprising results, often disturbing, sometimes deceitful, always complex, and rarely black and white. These are not all conspiracy theories.

 

Is it wrong to expect the politicians and warmongers to justify themselves thoroughly and with watertight reasoning, before committing the lives of millions of ordinary people to a fate worse than Hell?

 

Bravo Anna, Well said, but sadly it will fall on deaf ears.

You and other socially aware people will have all your thoughts corroborated in the article I am going to post for you from the Foreign Policy Journal a US online publication dedicated to providing news, critical analysis, and commentary on US foreign policy and international affairs.

Its purpose is to challenge the propaganda narratives presented by the mainstream media, which serve to manufacture consent for conflict and war.

 

Foreign policy journal. 26th March 2018

Integrity-has-vanished-from-the-west

by Paul Craig Roberts

As Washington drives the world to Nuclear destruction, where are the protests? There are none because Western governments and pressitute media are busy manufacturing consent for the insanity.

 

Among Western political leaders, there is not an ounce of integrity or morality. The Western print and TV media is dishonest and corrupt beyond repair. Yet the Russian government persists in its fantasy of “working with Russia’s Western partners.” The only way Russia can work with crooks is to become a crook. Is that what the Russian government wants?

Finian Cunningham notes the absurdity in the political and media uproar over Trump (belatedly) telephoning Putin to congratulate him on his re-election with 77% of the vote, a show of public approval that no Western political leader could possibly attain.

The crazed US senator from Arizona called the person with the largest majority vote of our time “a dictator.” Yet a real blood-soaked dictator from Saudi Arabia is feted at the White House and fawned over by the president of the United States (and Royalty in Britain - my words).

The Western politicians and presstitutes are morally outraged over an alleged poisoning, unsupported by any evidence, of a former spy of no consequence on orders by the president of Russia himself. These kind of insane insults thrown at the leader of the world’s most powerful military nation—and Russia is a nation, unlike the mongrel Western countries—raise the chances of nuclear Armageddon beyond the risks during the 20th century’s Cold War. The insane fools making these unsupported accusations show total disregard for all life on earth. Yet they regard themselves as the salt of the earth and as “exceptional, indispensable” people.

Think about the alleged poisoning of Skripal by Russia. What can this be other than an orchestrated effort to demonize the president of Russia? How can the West be so outraged over the death of a former double-agent—that is, a deceptive person—and completely indifferent to the millions of peoples destroyed by the West in the 21st century alone. [Editor’s note: According to The Guardian, Sergei Skripal and his daughter remain alive, but critically ill.]

 

Where is the outrage among people over the massive deaths for which the West, acting through its Saudi agent, is responsible in Yemen? Where is the Western outrage from the people, over the deaths in Syria? The deaths in (Iraq) Libya, in Somalia, Pakistan, Ukraine, Afghanistan? Where is the outrage in the West over constant Western interference in the internal affairs of other countries? How many times has Washington overthrown a democratically-elected government and reinstalled a Washington puppet?

 

Please- read the whole article here.

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2018/03/26/integrity-has-vanished-from-the-west/reinstalled a Washington puppet

 

Who is Paul Craig Roberts?

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/pages/about-paul-craig-roberts/

President Reagan appointed Dr. Roberts Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and was confirmed in office by the U.S. Senate. From 1975 to 1978,

 

---------- Post added 29-03-2018 at 13:08 ----------

 

Waldo says: I agree, people are led to war, but is the fault with those who lead or with those who follow? Without those who want to lead quiet lives, and are thus, easy to lead; there would be no one to do the fighting on behalf of the elites of this world.

 

The poor folk of each nation have much more in common with each other than with their respective leaders (whom invariably, it seems to me, act out of their own best interests).

I think there's a sensible middle ground though, between buying in to baseless conspiracy theories and blindly accepting everything our leaders say.

I know I'm somewhat biased, living in the UK and never visited Russia, but I would still think we have a far more fairer and liberal society than the Russians do.

 

Hi Waldo, I am in agreement with what you have written generally, however I would like you to clarify what you meant by 'Baseless Conspiracy Theories' because in my opinion conspiracies are never baseless, they are always either true or incorrect. For example 'The Bay of Tonkin' never happened - but took eager young men who had been propagandised, into another man's country to murder and maim millions, and do such horrific things that even today the survivors cannot live with themselves.

 

This was the FIRST televised war that spanned almost three decades. The Vietnam War killed more than 58,000 Americans. That’s a lot of people and a lot of heartache and deserves attention. But it killed and maimed several MILLION Vietnamese who suffered catastrophic injuries and deaths, rape, loss, privation, hunger, dislocation, house burnings, detention, imprisonment, and torture. Some experienced one or another of these 'every day for years on end.' That is suffering beyond the capacity of even the ablest writers to capture in a single book, and deserves a whole lot 'more' attention.....

 

The SECOND televised war took us into Iraq, after years of propaganda to convince the fatuous that there were WMD'S THAT COULD ATTACK US WITHIN 20 MINUTES. so the people begged Blair to 'come down strong' only to discover; when the country had been totally ransacked and decimated and the people physically and morally destroyed; that there were NO WMD's... and they even murdered David Kelly for trying to telling us the truth. Just as they did Robin Cook for daring to tell us that AlCaida was a

CIA construct.

 

The THIRD televised war was against Libya, the most fabulous advanced country in Africa at the time. Now reduced to a pile of rubble.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/11/28/10-things-about-gaddafi-they-dont-want-you-to-know/

 

And now we have the FOURTH televised war against Syria and Russia....

 

The information is out there for those who have the will to look. Or we can just sit back with blinkers on shouting conspiracy theory - as if that will make it all go away.

FACT: The US/UK are building up to WW3

But when this is over - I wonder how many of us will be? And how will we live with the consequences of what we actively encouraged, by supporting the blood lusting warmongers.

 

Please, Take a look at the faces of those desperate refugees and put yourself in their shoes, for just one minute, and think how things could have been so different - if all those screaming 'Conspiracy Theorist' had even bothered to attempt to investigate the truth themselves. And said 'NOT IN MY NAME.'

 

I have left links in my previous posts which will tell you WHY.. all that is needed is an hour or two of your time, which is more than was given to the victims of these heinous crimes against humanity.

 

''Never visited Russia, but I would still think we have a far more fairer and liberal society than the Russians do."

Like you I have never visited Russia so I really can't compare. Except to say that I would base any 'opinions' I might have, on the Miner's strike, Demonstration against the Bankers, Fracking and Tree Felling.. that I can think of off the top of my head. Which leads me to believe that we are no more a fair or liberal country than any other..

Saying we are 'free' to demonstrate and use free speech - is not the same as beating you over the head with a cudgel for doing so?

Edited March 29, 2018 by catpus
edit

[chalga]

Bravo Anna, Well said, but sadly it will fall on deaf ears.

You and other socially aware people will have all your thoughts corroborated in the article I am going to post for you from the Foreign Policy Journal a US online publication dedicated to providing news, critical analysis, and commentary on US foreign policy and international affairs.

Its purpose is to challenge the propaganda narratives presented by the mainstream media, which serve to manufacture consent for conflict and war.

 

Foreign policy journal. 26th March 2018

Integrity-has-vanished-from-the-west

by Paul Craig Roberts

As Washington drives the world to Nuclear destruction, where are the protests? There are none because Western governments and pressitute media are busy manufacturing consent for the insanity.

 

Among Western political leaders, there is not an ounce of integrity or morality. The Western print and TV media is dishonest and corrupt beyond repair. Yet the Russian government persists in its fantasy of “working with Russia’s Western partners.” The only way Russia can work with crooks is to become a crook. Is that what the Russian government wants?

Finian Cunningham notes the absurdity in the political and media uproar over Trump (belatedly) telephoning Putin to congratulate him on his re-election with 77% of the vote, a show of public approval that no Western political leader could possibly attain.

The crazed US senator from Arizona called the person with the largest majority vote of our time “a dictator.” Yet a real blood-soaked dictator from Saudi Arabia is feted at the White House and fawned over by the president of the United States (and Royalty in Britain - my words).

The Western politicians and presstitutes are morally outraged over an alleged poisoning, unsupported by any evidence, of a former spy of no consequence on orders by the president of Russia himself. These kind of insane insults thrown at the leader of the world’s most powerful military nation—and Russia is a nation, unlike the mongrel Western countries—raise the chances of nuclear Armageddon beyond the risks during the 20th century’s Cold War. The insane fools making these unsupported accusations show total disregard for all life on earth. Yet they regard themselves as the salt of the earth and as “exceptional, indispensable” people.

Think about the alleged poisoning of Skripal by Russia. What can this be other than an orchestrated effort to demonize the president of Russia? How can the West be so outraged over the death of a former double-agent—that is, a deceptive person—and completely indifferent to the millions of peoples destroyed by the West in the 21st century alone. [Editor’s note: According to The Guardian, Sergei Skripal and his daughter remain alive, but critically ill.]

 

Where is the outrage among people over the massive deaths for which the West, acting through its Saudi agent, is responsible in Yemen? Where is the Western outrage from the people, over the deaths in Syria? The deaths in (Iraq) Libya, in Somalia, Pakistan, Ukraine, Afghanistan? Where is the outrage in the West over constant Western interference in the internal affairs of other countries? How many times has Washington overthrown a democratically-elected government and reinstalled a Washington puppet?

 

Please- read the whole article here.

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2018/03/26/integrity-has-vanished-from-the-west/reinstalled a Washington puppet

 

Who is Paul Craig Roberts?

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/pages/about-paul-craig-roberts/

President Reagan appointed Dr. Roberts Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and was confirmed in office by the U.S. Senate. From 1975 to 1978,

 

---------- Post added 29-03-2018 at 13:08 ----------

 

Waldo says: I agree, people are led to war, but is the fault with those who lead or with those who follow? Without those who want to lead quiet lives, and are thus, easy to lead; there would be no one to do the fighting on behalf of the elites of this world.

 

The poor folk of each nation have much more in common with each other than with their respective leaders (whom invariably, it seems to me, act out of their own best interests).

I think there's a sensible middle ground though, between buying in to baseless conspiracy theories and blindly accepting everything our leaders say.

I know I'm somewhat biased, living in the UK and never visited Russia, but I would still think we have a far more fairer and liberal society than the Russians do.

 

Hi Waldo, I am in agreement with what you have written, however I would like you to clarify what you meant by 'Baseless Conspiracy Theories' because in my opinion conspiracies are never baseless, they are always either true or incorrect. For example 'The Bay of Tonkin' never happened - but took eager young men who had been propagandised, into a country to murder and maim millions, and do such horrific things that even today the survivors cannot live with themselves. This was the FIRST televised war that spanned parts of three decades. The Vietnam War killed more than 58,000 Americans. That’s a lot of people and a lot of heartache. It deserves attention. But it killed several million Vietnamese and severely affected -- and I mean severely -- the lives of many millions more. That deserves a whole lot 'more' attention...Millions of Vietnamese suffered: injuries and deaths, loss, privation, hunger, dislocation, house burnings, detention, imprisonment, and torture. Some experienced one or another of these 'every day for years on end.' That is suffering beyond the capacity of even the ablest writers to capture in a single book.

The SECOND televised war took us into Iraq, after years of propaganda to convince the fatuous that there were WMD took us into Iraq

 

 

These links provided are to Conspiracy Theorist sites.

[melthebell]

These links provided are to Conspiracy Theorist sites.

and you expect anything other?

[chalga]

and you expect anything other?

 

Get this gem from one of the twaddle videos he linked to,this is one of the points the Conspiracy Theorists have linked to,in the Skripal poisoning video :

 

English Civil War saw Cromwell's 1648 creation of first UK Masonic lodge, a conspiracy for judicial murder of king Charles I. Abbe Larudan: Les Franc-Macons Ecrasses

 

 

That passes for one of 20 Reasons why the Skripal poisoning story is fake News - By former BBC reporter in Salisbury...

Edited March 29, 2018 by chalga

[Waldo]

If there is a conspiracy (and some times, there are), then in that instance, that particular conspiracy is fact.

 

Baseless theories about conspiracies means there is no solid evidence to support the theory, it's just someone (often with a political motive, crudely attempting to sway public opinion) waffling theories.

 

For example, your posts have 'waffle' written all over them, they're just a bunch of assertions (mostly from other people) without any evidence to support them.

 

Your wall of text approach doesn't help matters either; even as a generic principle for good communication, it makes sense to keep things consice and easy and pleasant to digest (even if the subject matter itself, is not pleasant).

 

I'm not about to tell you or anyone else here how to post, but maybe consider picking one or two key points and providing evidence to support those points, would be a good start.

 

EDIT: I was addressing the above to catpus, in case anyone was wondering.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Waldo

[Phanerothyme]

 

Don't they have a big problem with immigration in Sweden? Increases in violent crime and rapes etc.

 

Not really no. At least not a problem they haven't met and dealt with many times before.

 

Breitbart, Fox et al would have you believe this godless socialist country is splintering under a tidal wave of dark skinned rapists and murderers.

 

The reality is more nuanced.

 

Yes they do have problems, but then they also take in a *lot* of refugees, the highest proportion of any European country - and nearly ten times the number, proportionally, of refugees accepted by the UK.

 

Last year Sweden welcomed more refugees than the UK in total This is a country with a quarter of the budget of the UK and a fifth of its GDP.

 

It simply chooses to spend its money more wisely...

[catpus]

If there is a conspiracy (and some times, there are), then in that instance, that particular conspiracy is fact.

 

Baseless theories about conspiracies means there is no solid evidence to support the theory, it's just someone (often with a political motive, crudely attempting to sway public opinion) waffling theories.

 

For example, your posts have 'waffle' written all over them, they're just a bunch of assertions (mostly from other people) without any evidence to support them.

 

Your wall of text approach doesn't help matters either; even as a generic principle for good communication, it makes sense to keep things consice and easy and pleasant to digest (even if the subject matter itself, is not pleasant).

 

I'm not about to tell you or anyone else here how to post, but maybe consider picking one or two key points and providing evidence to support those points, would be a good start.

 

EDIT: I was addressing the above to catpus, in case anyone was wondering.

 

Thank you for your considered response. I appreciate your constructive criticism, and do realise that a wall of text is not the ideal. Although I do attempt to make things concise (really, I do..) but sometimes one sentence is not enough and information has to be delivered 'IN CONTEXT,' not cherry picked like Chalga to fit his own perspective. Hence, the content I post does become elongated.. And I agree, is too much. Sorry...

 

And I do agree that some 'theories are written by people attempting to sway public opinion. As we have with May and Boris the Buffoon and the Russian poison?.

 

p.s. I thought 'waffle' was a bit harsh.

[melthebell]

 

p.s. I thought 'waffle' was a bit harsh.

 

oh we can think of much worse names to call your posts