Guest makapaka Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I thought she instigated it!! I’m not sure there’s any evidence that Winnie has actually advocated the crime..that would be tantamount to guilt. So the question to Hackey lad still stands.... Why would you separate instigate and advocate? Would instigation not be a crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andbreathe Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Why would you separate instigate and advocate? Would instigation not be a crime? Because they mean two entirely different things...that’s why they are two entirely different words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Peter Hain really is horrible Do you think Lady Thatcher was really horrible for taking tea with General Pinochet, who oversaw the dreadful human rights abuses, torture and murder of thousands of Chilean people in the 1970s - and who refused to even condemn him because of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattricia Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 "In 1986 she embarrassed the anti-apartheid community with the statement in a speech that "we shall liberate this country" with "our boxes of matches and our necklaces" interpreted as an implicit endorsement of the political killings by burning which did enormous damage to the anti-apartheid movement between 1984 and 1987." https://www.theguardian.com/century/1980-1989/Story/0,,110268,00.html She apologised years later for burnings and necklacing and therefor she was guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 She apologised. isn't that great. Saying sorry for sanctioning torture and murder, and not only that, but enthusing about and even glorifying in torture and murder, makes it OK. actually though, Winnie wasn't the only South African back then to get away with murder. A lot of other people did. And in the end it did not have much effect. All this stuff about the 'terrible damage to the anti-apartheid movement', as if the anti-apartheid movement outside South Africa had much to do with the actual fall of apartheid, well it didn't really. The regime had already given up by about 1986 and they knew they were on their last legs by then. It wasn't the sanctions. It wasn't that the Springboks couldn't play rugby. It was because the system was a total mess and couldn't be sustained. it might have sulllied her reputation in the west but it didn't affect her popularity in South Africa as these obituaries are showing. All the South African ones are absolutely laudatory. Even enemies of the ANC have not said anything bad about her at all. Yet. They may be a bit of revisionism in the next few days after her funeral, which will be a major event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calahonda Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Nelson was bright enough to give her the elbow, but as for hating her, she’s dead so what’s the point? I had no time for Thatcher or Blair, but Thatcher is dead, however Blair is still worth a punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itrytoplease Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 At the time of apartheid wasn't it the rule that a south African woman had to do as their husband told them, and woe betide them if they didn't? Would it of been possible for Nelson to stop his wife's actions even from behind bars? Could Nelson have been directing his wife's actions from prison? playing devils advocate now, but food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) I maintain unequivocally, that she should always be remembered, for giving the world, by fair means or foul, the greatest ever name that has ever been featured in a newspaper headline : Stompie Moeketsi. the 'Stompie' alone, is pretty close to being the best first name ever. But the 'Moeketsi' segment gives it even extra depth. Scottish and Irish people can identify with it, because it is like 'Mc'. Even Russian and Polish, Ukranian people etc, like it, and arguably even more. It sounds Slavic too especially if you cheat a little and put a k in it. By murdering this guy she was able to bring disparate cultures, together. Winnie's linguistic legacy, even if it was just a fluke, and that she didn't care what name Stompie Moeketsi was given, and that the guy could have been called, not Stompie Moeketsi, but Quinton Lucas for all she cared, is irrelevant. It is a major achievement nevertheless. Edited April 3, 2018 by blake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I thought she instigated it!! I’m not sure there’s any evidence that Winnie has actually advocated the crime..that would be tantamount to guilt. So the question to Hackey lad still stands.... Not expecting a reply but " Advocate , verb , To publicly recommend or support " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest makapaka Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Because they mean two entirely different things...that’s why they are two entirely different words. Well obviously but what difference are you drawing between instigating necklacing and advocating it. I know you are disappointed that halibut and snaily boy prevented you having a rant but can you clarify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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