nightrider Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 To be fair the immigration law changes in 2014 were intended to make it easy to remove new illegal immigrants mainly because of EU law and human rights. The act wasn't intended to be used to deport the Windrush generation. The current situation is more the fault of civil servants choosing soft targets and not doing their jobs correctly rather than the Government. If you give employees targets, it should be obvious they will take the easiest route to meet them. The government should take responsibility for not giving more guidance on how to meet the targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) To be fair the immigration law changes in 2014 were intended to make it easy to remove new illegal immigrants mainly because of EU law and human rights. The act wasn't intended to be used to deport the Windrush generation. The current situation is more the fault of civil servants choosing soft targets and not doing their jobs correctly rather than the Government.The Windrush scandal is wholly the result of decades of ultra-liberal policies about immigration status prior to 2008 (the year in which Labour introduced the PBS for non-EU Immigration), then chronic tinkering around the edges without due process or thought (never mind joined-up thinking) for short-term political gain. It is the typification of the truism under which the ‘easy and simple’ solutions sold to the public by populists like Farage and all those taken in by UKIP-like snake oil, are anything but in Real Life, because none of the problems which they proclaim to solve are simple at all. If the U.K. had had e.g. an ID card personal requirement like most if not all other EU countries have (and under which pretty much everything else immigration and residency/entitlement -related systems/policies/data etc. can easily be structured and implemented/improved) you would never have seen something like the Windrush situation happen. Blaming civil servants in context is just like the tradesman blaming his tools: the hallmark of utter incompetence. Edited April 30, 2018 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 If the U.K. had had e.g. an ID card personal requirement like most if not all other EU countries have (and under which pretty much everything else immigration and residency/entitlement -related systems/policies/data etc. can easily be structured and implemented/improved) you would never have seen something like the Windrush situation happen. Blaming civil servants in context is just like the tradesman blaming his tools: the hallmark of utter incompetence. ID cards have been debated in Parliament. Ironically one of the main reasons they have not been introduced is because of human rights issues. I agree it does make sense to have ID cards in the UK especially now we are leaving the EU. ---------- Post added 30-04-2018 at 12:55 ---------- If you give employees targets, it should be obvious they will take the easiest route to meet them. The government should take responsibility for not giving more guidance on how to meet the targets. Fair point, some civil servants obviously need more guidance or should be sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Blaming civil servants in context is just like the tradesman blaming his tools: the hallmark of utter incompetence. No It isn't. There is no tradesman in the government winrush equation, only amateurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Blaming civil servants in context is just like the tradesman blaming his tools: the hallmark of utter incompetence. I'd agree with this if the UK civil service wasn't exactly like Yes Minister You'll be amazed to know that [when] I was a student in the 1980s, a student of economics and politics, I once had to write an essay on 'How true to life is Yes Minister' I think I wrote in the essay that it wasn't that true to life. I can tell you, as prime minister, it is true to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I'd agree with this if the UK civil service wasn't exactly like Yes Minister In those quotes by Cameron he doesn't mention the civil service - perhaps he was talking about the politicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I see that Mrs May has ordered a 3-line whip on the forthcoming Commons vote about the release of the Windrush papers...if you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to fear, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Note: the problem does not affect a 'generation' but just a few hundred people who still have not acquired documentation after residing in the UK for 50yrs. Perhaps the media have been misreporting this entirely, but people weren't asked for a form of ID. They were asked for 30 years of documentation to prove that they had stayed in the UK for that entire time. The fact that many (perhaps all) of these people had paid NI, meaning they must have had a NI number, they had NHS records and numbers, none of these things was considered to be proof of residence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron99 Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Did anyone else spot when the new Home Sec., Sajid Javid got started to make his first speech on the matter at the Dispatch Box, someone clearly made a 'Baaa' / sheep noise? My money is on Dennis Skinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catpus Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) Did anyone else spot when the new Home Sec., Sajid Javid got started to make his first speech on the matter at the Dispatch Box, someone clearly made a 'Baaa' / sheep noise? My money is on Dennis Skinner. Javid is no sheep.... Nip over to the Conservative thread and see what I have discovered about this 'son of an immigrant bus driver'.... A 'comforting' phrase meant to distract from the fact that he is a hard headed, ruthless, cruising shark.... Edited May 3, 2018 by catpus edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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