Don valley Railway

[Irene Swaine]

A good way to reduce costs and maintenance would be to opt for diesel trams, saving having to erect stanchions and power cables. 

[Chekhov]

46 minutes ago, Irene Swaine said:

A good way to reduce costs and maintenance would be to opt for diesel trams, saving having to erect stanchions and power cables. 

But we're in a climate emergency !

Seriously, I am a fan of electrification for its efficiency, "climate emergency" or not.

The fact that none of the rail lines from Sheffield are electrified is an absolute disgrace.

 

[Irene Swaine]

1 minute ago, Chekhov said:

But we're in a climate emergency !

Seriously, I am a fan of electrification for its efficiency, "climate emergency" or not.

The fact that none of the rail lines from Sheffield are electrified is an absolute disgrace.

 

I am glad that you realise the "climate emergency" is a scam. You can get decent acceleration if you use a big enough engine with enough horsepower. I think the Wharncliffe Valley would look awful with power cables and stanchions. Sheffield station is marooned by a complex network of tunnels, electrifying it would be difficult and a waste of Network Rail resources. Modern diesel trains are designed with enough horsepower to accelerate quickly, so much so that London is just 2 hours away and Newcastle even less. Millhouses park would look awful with power cables running along it.

[Planner1]

56 minutes ago, Irene Swaine said:

A good way to reduce costs and maintenance would be to opt for diesel trams, saving having to erect stanchions and power cables. 

As I’ve mentioned before, that is impractical. No one makes diesel trams to current emissions requirements.

 

They wanted to have them for the tram-train trial, but procuring any was too difficult and expensive. The last ones manufactured anywhere were euro 3, so any new order would need to pay for a full redesign to work to latest euro spec. Plus the manufacturer had a full order book and the lead-in time would have been several years.

 

It is now practical to have battery powered trams. They have them in Birmingham. That’s what they would go for if necessary, but it’s much more likely to put in overhead wires on a route like the Stocksbridge one, that isn’t going through sensitive areas like a city centre where it might be difficult / undesirable to have overhead lines.

[Bargepole23]

19 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Sorry if this has been bought up before in this long thread, but is the reopened railway due to run from Stocksbridge to the ex Victoria station?

If so how many people would actually use it ? ! ?

Surely a much better, if more expensive, strategy would be to extend the Yellow route tram from Middlewood over the Don and onto the railway alignment ?

Ideally extending all the trams  but if not then enough to give possibly a 20 min service  all the way to Stocksbridge ?

I could see that getting used.

I wouldn't worry to much about something promised by an outgoing Tory government, chances of it happening in our lifetime is slim to none.

[Chekhov]

1 hour ago, Planner1 said:

As I’ve mentioned before, that is impractical. No one makes diesel trams to current emissions requirements.

 

They wanted to have them for the tram-train trial, but procuring any was too difficult and expensive. The last ones manufactured anywhere were euro 3, so any new order would need to pay for a full redesign to work to latest euro spec. Plus the manufacturer had a full order book and the lead-in time would have been several years.

 

It is now practical to have battery powered trams. They have them in Birmingham. That’s what they would go for if necessary, but it’s much more likely to put in overhead wires on a route like the Stocksbridge one, that isn’t going through sensitive areas like a city centre where it might be difficult / undesirable to have overhead lines.

Change the emissions regulations then. There is too much of this extreme "keep us safe and well at any cost", the fact is the air in the UK has never been cleaner and a few diesel trams would not make any significant difference.

 

But, as it happens we do not want battery trams, they have limited power and range, we want electric ones. Modern OHL structures really aren't that unsightly anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Bargepole23 said:

I wouldn't worry to much about something promised by an outgoing Tory government, chances of it happening in our lifetime is slim to none.

I wouldn't be too sure about that, and I speak as a sceptic of promised transport infrastructure projects, whatever happened to the promised (and much needed) Woodhead road tunnel ? ! ? And road tunnels are perfectly feasible, try driving round Gran Canaria, or, even more impressive, Madeira.

The fact is the Tories cancelled HS2 and promised the money would be spent on other transport projects. If Labour then cancelled those as well they'd get some real stick. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Chekhov

[Irene Swaine]

This ULEZ business needs scrapping for the good of the city. A battery powered tram wouldn't be good for the long journey to Stocksbridge and if it breaks down on the mainline, Stagecoach will be fined for blocking the line. 

[Meltman]

Stadler?  make duel power trains, at present used in Norfolk amongst other places that use either overhead electric power or on board diesel engine powered generator. The trains switch from one power to the other as required, so are flexible as to where they go. The diesel engine is a high efficiency unit with very low emissions so should be compatible with CAZ's. If overhead catenary is undesirable or not practical, for example in older low headroom tunnels, the diesel-electric power can be used to take the train to the next section of overhead. 

[Chekhov]

1 hour ago, Meltman said:

Stadler?  make duel power trains, at present used in Norfolk amongst other places that use either overhead electric power or on board diesel engine powered generator. The trains switch from one power to the other as required, so are flexible as to where they go. The diesel engine is a high efficiency unit with very low emissions so should be compatible with CAZ's. If overhead catenary is undesirable or not practical, for example in older low headroom tunnels, the diesel-electric power can be used to take the train to the next section of overhead. 

Thank Gawd they did NOT have all that complexity when they electrified the WCML back in the 60s.

It might have cost more but once done it's the best and simplest and most reliable option.

[Meltman]

3 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Thank Gawd they did NOT have all that complexity when they electrified the WCML back in the 60s.

It might have cost more but once done it's the best and simplest and most reliable option.

I don't think we are trying to compare a small local railway to the WCML for a start. I'm in favour of electrification but for places where it's not practical or the cost is prohibitive there are other possible solutions. I don't know if you remember but the line up the Don Valley was electrified with very 'old fashoned' OH  the modern stuff is far less obtrusive and not a blot on the landscape.