ads36 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 What is being said is that there are situations, ... when a driver can check, see it is clear and then manoeuvre to find that there is now a cyclist hanging on his door handle. I'm very good looking. I'm extremely intelligent, I'm funny, gregarious, thoughtful, athletically gifted, and modest. But I'm not blessed with magical powers of trans-apparation. Nor is anyone else. People don't appear out of nowhere, that's magic, which isn't real. People do however, drive without *really* looking. I've been surprised by a few cyclists over the years, every single time it's because I didn't look properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I'm very good looking. I'm extremely intelligent, I'm funny, gregarious, thoughtful, athletically gifted, and modest. oh, I’m sure if you were that good looking a cyclist, more drivers would notice you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon copy Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I've nearly bowled a few cyclists over on penistone rd. They in a world of there own . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I've nearly bowled a few cyclists over on penistone rd. They in a world of there own . You sound like you might be a bit on the dangerous side... ---------- Post added 21-09-2018 at 07:32 ---------- Someone quoted the Highway Code to suggest that it proved that filtering between cars and the kerb is legal. It doesn't and that is what I am saying. It is only an interpretation. Not proof. Slower speeds are safer. What is being said is that there are situations, usually to do with speed and nippiness of the cyclist, when a driver can check, see it is clear and then manoeuvre to find that there is now a cyclist hanging on his door handle. Perhaps if the time between looking and maneuvering is 10 to 20 seconds, but that would be a failure of the driver to look again wouldn't it. BTW - the way the law works in the UK is generally permissive. IE everything is legal unless there's a law that says there isn't. So you go ahead and prove that filtering on the inside is illegal. If you can't (which you can't), then it's legal, by definition, because nothing says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarPig Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) You sound like you might be a bit on the dangerous side... Sounds more like it was the cyclists that were on the dangerous side. ---------- Post added 21-09-2018 at 07:34 ---------- So you go ahead and prove that filtering on the inside is illegal. If you can't (which you can't), then it's legal, by definition, because nothing says otherwise. The point that you don't understand is that if a cyclist is involved in an accident whilst filtering on the left side, then there could be an element of blame on their part. Filtering on the left could be seen as undertaking, which can be dangerous and should not be done. Filtering in-between two lanes of traffic on say a dual carriageway could also be viewed as undertaking. Edited September 21, 2018 by WarPig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 You absolutely could be to blame, you just don't seem to be able to comprehend this. If you are passing to the left of cars, inbetween them and the pavement then that is not responsible riding. When filtering you have a degree of responsibility to do so safely. You're still wrong. If a car makes a maneuver into you, then the car is to blame. Filtering does not somehow absolve the car driver from driving safely, which includes making sure that what they are doing is safe and doesn't compromise the safety of other road users. Filtering on the left hand side for a cycle is both responsible and expected. Car drivers are REQUIRED to look before they do anything such as move left or open a door. What a ridiculous thing to say. Admittedly, if there were a steep hill, and a queue of traffic on it, then excessive speed on a cycle would be possible. However in reality most queues are not on steep hills and I need to actually peddle to make the bike move. I think one day you could be in for a very big surprise. But you are clearly one of those cyclists who always think they are immune from being blameworthy. That part is clear. Not true in the slightest, I try to remain immune from blame by not cycling badly, much like when I drive. I make mistakes though, I'm human. But filtering is not a mistake, and should someone hit me whilst filtering then it will be entirely there fault. Fortunately the law determines that and not your opinion. ---------- Post added 21-09-2018 at 07:39 ---------- Sounds more like it was the cyclists that were on the dangerous side. Does it? How so? I'm saying it's most likely that poster because I've never "nearly bowled over" a cyclist on Penistone Rd, despite using it nearly every day. So either he's very unlucky, or he's the actual problem. The point that you don't understand is that if a cyclist is involved in an accident whilst filtering on the left side, then there could be an element of blame on their part. Filtering on the left could be seen as undertaking, which can be dangerous and should not be done. Filtering in-between two lanes of traffic on say a dual carriageway could also be viewed as undertaking. Nope, the point you fail to understand is that filtering does not somehow make you to blame for other road users maneuvering without looking. Filtering cannot be seen as undertaking, undertaking is something entirely different as you well know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarPig Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 But filtering is not a mistake, and should someone hit me whilst filtering then it will be entirely there fault. Fortunately the law determines that and not your opinion. You have a lot to learn and its actually quite worrying that there people like you on the roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyR Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) Nope, the point you fail to understand is that filtering does not somehow make you to blame for other road users maneuvering without looking. Filtering cannot be seen as undertaking, undertaking is something entirely different as you well know. Personally i see filtering as being something that's a bit of a grey area (not illegal but not entirely advised in all circumstances) and definitely isn't something I do thinking I had the full weight of the law behind me, nor would I think if someone didn't see me as they swapped lanes that it would be entirely their fault. I do it (and I do it frequently) fully aware of how invisible I am and if there's any chance of a car swapping lanes, I proceed with considerable caution. I was behind a cyclist (woman, not that that's relevant, but I'd imagine most would assume its a man) who got knocked off doing exactly the above on penistone road. The woman in the car just didn't see her and swapped lanes. The cyclist wasn't expecting it. We can sit here all day and argue about who's fault it was but really its just a mistake by the driver (not seeing the cyclist) and a lack of defensive riding by the cyclist. I think I have noticed a tendency on fora and I have probably been guilty of this in the past, for cyclists to expect drivers to see them "because they should". Its not the case, as a cyclist you have to ride defensively for the sake of self preservation (I know you do,cyclone). Its not the fault of drivers that you have to ride like this, its simply because cyclists are small and so less visible relative to other vehicles. Ideally there'd be lovely segregated prioritised cycle paths to ride on everywhere, but there isn't. Edited September 21, 2018 by TimmyR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becky B Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I'm very good looking. I'm extremely intelligent, I'm funny, gregarious, thoughtful, athletically gifted, and modest. But I'm not blessed with magical powers of trans-apparation. Nor is anyone else. People don't appear out of nowhere, that's magic, which isn't real. People do however, drive without *really* looking. I've been surprised by a few cyclists over the years, every single time it's because I didn't look properly. do you have ESP though? I think that's sometimes expected so you can predict a motorist's next move... Sounds more like it was the cyclists that were on the dangerous side. ---------- Post added 21-09-2018 at 07:34 ---------- The point that you don't understand is that if a cyclist is involved in an accident whilst filtering on the left side, then there could be an element of blame on their part. Filtering on the left could be seen as undertaking, which can be dangerous and should not be done. Filtering in-between two lanes of traffic on say a dual carriageway could also be viewed as undertaking. If there's a cycle lane on the left leading to an advanced stop line at traffic lights, can cyclists ride along that alongside queuing traffic, in your view? Or is that still filtering, which "should not be done"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarPig Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Personally i see filtering as being something that's a bit of a grey area (not illegal but not entirely advised in all circumstances) and definitely isn't something I do thinking I had the full weight of the law behind me, nor would I think if someone didn't see me as they swapped lanes that it would be entirely their fault. I do it (and I do it frequently) fully aware of how invisible I am and if there's any chance of a car swapping lanes, I proceed with considerable caution. I was behind a cyclist (woman, not that that's relevant, but I'd imagine most would assume its a man) who got knocked off doing exactly the above on penistone road. The woman in the car just didn't see her and swapped lanes. The cyclist wasn't expecting it. We can sit here all day and argue about who's fault it was but really its just a mistake by the driver (not seeing the cyclist) and a lack of defensive riding by the cyclist. Agreed. For Cyclone to cycle the way he does whilst thinking he has the full weight of the law behind him is farcical, and ignorant. ---------- Post added 21-09-2018 at 08:07 ---------- do you have ESP though? I think that's sometimes expected so you can predict a motorist's next move... If there's a cycle lane on the left leading to an advanced stop line at traffic lights, can cyclists ride along that alongside queuing traffic, in your view? Or is that still filtering, which "should not be done"? A cycle lane is different, but otherwise undertaking should not be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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