Resolution Foundation. Increase Pensioner Tax

[Obelix]

They are legally avoiding tax. They are not evading it.

 

You need to understand that the law is black and white- if it is permitted it's legal even if distasteful.

[truman]

Tax law is a whole lot more complicated than motoring law, drink driving laws etc so not comparable.

 

 

Of course it's comparable ...make the tax laws more simple and more clear..that way there's no loopholes for lawyers to try to use...maybe the people aren't prosecuted because it can't be proven that they did anything wrong legally..a more straightforward tax system would make these prosecition far more simple..as in the case of motoring law..

[mossdog]

Then they look for somewhere cheaper.

 

If they cant find anywhere affordable at all then they need to really think hard about whether they are yet in a position to buy a house.

 

Expectation and reality are two very very different things.

 

If they really cant buy any sort of house in any sort of area, then they rent or roomshare or continue to live with their parents or stay with friends or sofa hop or even apply for priority with a local authority until they get themselves in a better position

 

If they cannot manage to do either of the above then quite frankly they have bigger priorities to sort out before even begining to dream about home ownership.

 

Im not sure what sort of response are you really seeking here?

 

Surely you are not going to keep going on some exhaustive list of residential areas to try to prove that every single property and every single area is outside the reach of some young graduate in full time work. That's just nonsense.

 

If you are merely fishing for some stock answer of "make them all cheaper" or "give them all a grant towards it" then that is also nonsense.

 

Look, im not denying that housing is expensive. Im am not even going to challenge that property in certain popular areas has not risen dramatically BUT what I will maintain is that this nothing new.

 

Every single generation throughout time has had housing costs to be the biggest financial burden in their lives. I am also going to strongly maintain that this current generation have income, financial support, improved working standards and improved living standards and a social lifestyle that some of their previous generation would only dream of.

 

The debate can rage on till the cows come home and polar opposite statistics and "facts" can be bandied about dependant on what source is quoted and what agenda that source is pushing.

 

One very important thing cannot be deneid though. There are plenty of young people (including many who have never been to university) who HAVE managed to scrimp and save to get themselves a property. A modest even perhaps poky property - yes. In a less than preferred area - yes.

 

BUT its a start and everyone has to start somewhere.

 

The question to be asked is what are these types of young house owning millenials (including myself) doing that is clearly working over all these others young people who are perceived to be in such dire straits and requiring the teat of mother government to sort them out.

 

They cant all be dismissed as spolit rich kids or lucky people getting their inheritances early so......?

..........and if you can't find somewhere affordable........seek your fortune abroad like I did and millions have done over time,thus making room for the millions coming to seek their fortune here!

[Anna B]

Of course it's comparable ...make the tax laws more simple and more clear..that way there's no loopholes for lawyers to try to use...maybe the people aren't prosecuted because it can't be proven that they did anything wrong legally..a more straightforward tax system would make these prosecition far more simple..as in the case of motoring law..

 

I take it you haven't watched any of the Panorama programme then? They are clearly evading tax and admit as much to the undercover reporters, but if you watch part 2, nothing happens to them other than they have to lie low for a while, and these are just the one's on film. There must be thousands at it that never get caught.

 

I agree that the tax system has to be greatly simplified, but there will always be difficulties with clarity because the rogues are deliberately mining it for ambiguities. Look and ye shall find...

 

Accountancy is said to be one of the most likely professions to be taken over by robots in the future, so maybe when it all goes online they will be able to close the loopholes, but I'm not holding my breath.

[tinfoilhat]

I take it you haven't watched any of the Panorama programme then? They are clearly evading tax and admit as much to the undercover reporters, but if you watch part 2, nothing happens to them other than they have to lie low for a while, and these are just the one's on film. There must be thousands at it that never get caught.

 

I agree that the tax system has to be greatly simplified, but there will always be difficulties with clarity because the rogues are deliberately mining it for ambiguities. Look and ye shall find...

 

Accountancy is said to be one of the most likely professions to be taken over by robots in the future, so maybe when it all goes online they will be able to close the loopholes, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Vince cable said it cant be done.

 

And with multinationals its harder still. For a corner shop the tax system IS simple its when corporations are spread over several continents and a midiad of different tax laws.

[Calahonda]

The problem with tax evasion is that most of us contribute to it, how many ask for a receipt from the window cleaner? Have any of you ever conducted a cash in hand deal to negate the payment of VAT? This is a being ‘a little bit dead’ scenario, you’re either dead or not, irrespective of the actual amount evaded.

 

I’m not trying to be holier than though, but ‘He who is without sin, cast the first stone’, comes to mind, I know that I am not qualified to cast it. I reckon that if every self employed tradesman actually paid their rightful dues and demands that the treasury would look a lot healthier.

[Cyclone]

It's not actually the responsibility of the person paying for something to somehow verify that the vendor pays tax.

I don't ask for a receipt from a window cleaner, nor do I audit the books of Morrisons to check for VAT compliance.

 

I DO however take responsibility for paying the correct amount of tax myself, I pay my VAT, I pay my corporation tax, I pay my PAYE. I even have to go to the faff of adding up my interest payments to satisfy my accountant that they're less than £500 a year, despite the fact that both she and I know they're going to be in the region of £10.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2018 at 20:01 ----------

 

Accountancy is said to be one of the most likely professions to be taken over by robots in the future, so maybe when it all goes online they will be able to close the loopholes, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Accountants don't create the loopholes, the law creates them, and automated systems will be better at exploiting them, not worse.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2018 at 20:04 ----------

 

 

my bold

Ayup Cyclone, I could go googling for relevant backup articles etc and posting the links, should that ever be regarded as evidence is another subject, however I like to think that my experience of life has given me enough insight to voice or post my own opinion, it's something I like to do on here, I'm not a big fan of having to post evidence all the time, it is not a court case it is a discussion forum where people can post (rightly or wrongly) their own opinions

 

If you can't support an opinion (which you've stated as a fact) with evidence, then what worth is it?

[ECCOnoob]

 

I DO however take responsibility for paying the correct amount of tax myself, I pay my VAT, I pay my corporation tax, I pay my PAYE. I even have to go to the faff of adding up my interest payments to satisfy my accountant that they're less than £500 a year, despite the fact that both she and I know they're going to be in the region of £10.

 

Sounds like these constantly criticised companies and so called "rich" scumbags are taking responsbility for paying the correct amount of tax too.

 

Paying what the law says they are obliged to pay.

 

I dont understand why others who blindly scream its not enough think they have a right to enforce some sort of fantasy "moralistic" Judgment to force them to pay more.

 

There is no such thing as a Court of Morals

Edited May 11, 2018 by ECCOnoob

[El Cid]

I’m not trying to be holier than though, but ‘He who is without sin, cast the first stone’, comes to mind, I know that I am not qualified to cast it. I reckon that if every self employed tradesman actually paid their rightful dues and demands that the treasury would look a lot healthier.

 

And if you were filthy rich and stayed in various countries, and had various bank accounts; you would favour the country with the cheapest taxes.

 

I am sure millionaires pay more tax than myself, but probably less as a percentage of their wealth. When everyone is honest with reality, things can only get better.

 

Pensioners' incomes rapidly catching up with workers' after retirement earnings triple in 40 years.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/08/pensioners-incomes-catching-workers/

[Cyclone]

Sounds like these constantly criticised companies and so called "rich" scumbags are taking responsbility for paying the correct amount of tax too.

 

Paying what the law says they are obliged to pay.

 

I dont understand why others who blindly scream its not enough think they have a right to enforce some sort of fantasy "moralistic" Judgment to force them to pay more.

 

There is no such thing as a Court of Morals

 

Everyone pays what they're obliged to pay, I've yet to meet anyone who writes a cheque to HMRC to just pay some extra.