We are all poorer, much poorer

[L00b]

The point I was making is that 2% of £40,000 is a lot more than 2% of £10,000.

 

Add to that that jobs paying £10,000 tend not to be secure or are 0 hours, or weren't paying minimum wage in the first place and got caught.

What? All of the low paid?

 

Anybody on SF had a 12% pay rise?

 

Please tell us about it.

I think you want to check tax reliefs thresholds, besides NMW increases. They’re pay rises as well.

 

I’ve had a 100(+/-)% pay rise between 2008 & 2018. Accompanied by a 20+% increase in personal taxation (until around late summer 2017) and -conservatively- a 15 to 20% decrease in disposable income by end 2017. Typical squeezed middle.

 

With our recent move, 25% pay rise, plus personal taxation about halved (21% flat, relative to UK’s tiered 20/40/45%)...but life is more expensive. Then again, there’s still a real state pension at the end.

 

Thank f*%# for a healthy financial industry

Edited May 16, 2018 by L00b

[Jonny5]

Most people earn more as they get older more experienced and capable. Often this enumeration is exponential.

 

The real comparison to make is with someone today who is doing your job as it was 10-20 years ago.

[Cyclone]

Most people earn more as they get older more experienced and capable. Often this enumeration is exponential.

 

The real comparison to make is with someone today who is doing your job as it was 10-20 years ago.

 

A good point, but probably only true in professions.

Someone working on minimum wage, isn't likely to get considerably more (if anything) just because they get older and have been stacking shelves for longer.

[AlexAtkin]

The problem is that focusing on a percentage is not helpful to people on low incomes.

 

A small percent for everyone means someone at the top increases by more than a low-income persons entire wage. When that wage increase has not covered their cost of living increase (which doesn't necessarily follow inflation, as inflation is an average) then they effectively become poorer.

 

Over the last couple of years our food costs have increased by at least 50% for exactly the same order. Being disabled, its not simply a case of changing our eating/preparation habits as we HAVE to buy pre-prepared foods.

 

The real comparison to make is with someone today who is doing your job as it was 10-20 years ago.

 

Which is certainly an interesting one seeing as businesses have a habit of re-structuring, reducing the number of staff and merging different job posts together.

 

So FINDING a person doing the same job as 20 years ago is unlikely, odds are their job entails a far wider variety of tasks than it would have 20 years ago. People are expected to work harder and harder for what works out to a worse wage.

Edited May 16, 2018 by AlexAtkin

[Cyclone]

I can only speak for my industry, but job roles haven't changed in 20 years. You can still find developer (even Java Developer to be very specific), tester, project manager, business analyst, all these roles exist in much the same way they did 20 years ago with much the same responsibility, some slight changes in exactly HOW the work is done, but nothing fundamental.

[Calahonda]

I recall reading a post 2008 crash article, predicting that other than for a few, we were drifting into a low to middle pay scale society. With the demise of our manufacturing base it’s hardly surprising, and had started to happen well before the crash, but what is the answer? I was recently chatting with an Aldi sales assistant who has a degree in archeology, I wager that there is a plethora of similar examples.

 

Our son and his wife are both good grafters, and have been through the mill employment wise, they are both well settled now earning good money, but don’t take any stick, I just wonder if some folk in employment feel so lucky to be so, that they accept poor terms of employment and being taken advantage of.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Calahonda

[AlexAtkin]

I can only speak for my industry, but job roles haven't changed in 20 years. You can still find developer (even Java Developer to be very specific), tester, project manager, business analyst, all these roles exist in much the same way they did 20 years ago with much the same responsibility, some slight changes in exactly HOW the work is done, but nothing fundamental.

 

 

I was thinking more like clerical work. My mum for example was expected to do invoices/accounts, answer the phone and man reception - all at the same time. She ended up having to do the former out of hours unpaid as it was a completely unrealistic expectation. You are right, some people are in a position where they have to accept crap terms in their job because the alternative is no job.

 

Another example, all the government departments the Tories merged, less staff, same workload.

 

That said, when I have looked at programming or IT technician jobs, the range of skills they expect of you can be REALLY broad. Its presumably why those jobs are advertised whereas the specific skilled jobs are already filled.

 

You look for web developer and they generally expect you to know every language and server under the sun, often for minimum wage!

 

None of this is even that recent, I haven't been on the job market for quite some time now.

 

A friend of mine has degrees also and where did he end up working? Sainsburys, then Lloyds Pharmacy. Even if he trains up to higher positions, the difference in pay is pence per hour. I think he said that the next level up doesn't even get a raise at all.

Edited May 16, 2018 by AlexAtkin

[Robin-H]

The problem is that focusing on a percentage is not helpful to people on low incomes.

 

A small percent for everyone means someone at the top increases by more than a low-income persons entire wage. When that wage increase has not covered their cost of living increase (which doesn't necessarily follow inflation, as inflation is an average) then they effectively become poorer.

 

Over the last couple of years our food costs have increased by at least 50% for exactly the same order. Being disabled, its not simply a case of changing our eating/preparation habits as we HAVE to buy pre-prepared foods.

 

 

 

Which is certainly an interesting one seeing as businesses have a habit of re-structuring, reducing the number of staff and merging different job posts together.

 

So FINDING a person doing the same job as 20 years ago is unlikely, odds are their job entails a far wider variety of tasks than it would have 20 years ago. People are expected to work harder and harder for what works out to a worse wage.

 

If correct then that is surprising, as that doesn't follow the national trend.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook-2017/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-2017-prices-and-expenditure

 

"Food and non-alcoholic beverage prices rose 11.5% in real terms between 2007 and their peak in February 2014 as measured by the Consumer Price Index, following a long period in which they had fallen. Gradual price reductions since then have reduced that real terms increase to 4.1% compared to 2007."

 

There has been a real terms increase of 4.1% in food and non alcoholic beverage prices since 2007. I would therefore question why the food you are buying has increased by 50% in the last couple of years alone?

[L00b]

Most people earn more as they get older more experienced and capable. Often this enumeration is exponential.

 

The real comparison to make is with someone today who is doing your job as it was 10-20 years ago.

I started in my current 'line' about 20 years ago, and the job hasn't changed, neither has the remuneration basis, although the corporate structures have diversified some (used to be partnerships for decades and longer, more common to see LLPs now, and some Ltds, besides new 'tiers' of partners (salaried/junior/full-equity)): peers wait longer to get into real money, and fewer of them get into serious money nowadays.

 

Someone starting now would be on around the same as I was, all things being equal. Around £30-35k, with a STEM PhD being the standard entry-level technical qualification for getting the (trainee) job in the first place nowadays.

 

"Many called, few chosen" applies. It's not for everyone. By very far. Few make it through the qualification mill of the first 3-5 years; still fewer accomodate the client care/billing pressure/'career on the line every minute of every day' personal liability long-term.

[Anna B]

If correct then that is surprising, as that doesn't follow the national trend.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook-2017/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-2017-prices-and-expenditure

 

"Food and non-alcoholic beverage prices rose 11.5% in real terms between 2007 and their peak in February 2014 as measured by the Consumer Price Index, following a long period in which they had fallen. Gradual price reductions since then have reduced that real terms increase to 4.1% compared to 2007."

 

There has been a real terms increase of 4.1% in food and non alcoholic beverage prices since 2007. I would therefore question why the food you are buying has increased by 50% in the last couple of years alone?

 

That's the difference between 'National trends' and real life experience.

 

Isn't the Consumer Price Index based on an 'average shopping basket' of articles, which changes every month with trends. If that's the case then it isn't really a consistent measure.

 

Speaking from personal experience I would say it's ridiculous to say food and non-alcoholic drinks have only risen by 4.1%. I would say 40% or 50% is much nearer the mark.