Stabbings in Sheffield May 2018

[melthebell]

We had fresh white bread doorsteps, with ample white and brown dripping and a sprinkle of salt. Life was simpler then, the pop wagon had an army of kids queueing for the likes of dandelion and burdock, fighting took place using fists, and the naughtiest things were probably sharing a Park Drive with your mates and snogging a willing girl, actually behind the bike sheds in my case.

 

I don’t have an answer to this problem, our son was too busy playing every sport imaginable to even think of gangs and knives, I can’t think what we did right, but whatever it was appears to have worked.

i think you should watch the peaky blinders and see what went on BEFORE your utopia

[Penistone999]

None of these address the real issues. Try major investment in youth services, youth offending teams and training and education for young people, try a massive education programme.

'Getting tough' with people who feel marginalised and undervalued doesn't work - helping them to feel they matter and have a future does.

 

Maybe we could send the poor , misunderstood little cherubs on a Safari holiday to make them feel wanted. :roll:

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 12:45 ----------

 

Then you're part of the problem.

 

No , they are spot on with their view.

 

The only way to deal with these people is very long prison sentences.

 

caught carrying a knife............ mandatory 10 year sentence.

Stab someone ............ mandatory 20 years

Kill someone with a knife ........... a whole life tariff .

[paula4sheff]

We had fresh white bread doorsteps, with ample white and brown dripping and a sprinkle of salt. Life was simpler then, the pop wagon had an army of kids queueing for the likes of dandelion and burdock, fighting took place using fists, and the naughtiest things were probably sharing a Park Drive with your mates and snogging a willing girl, actually behind the bike sheds in my case.

 

I don’t have an answer to this problem, our son was too busy playing every sport imaginable to even think of gangs and knives, I can’t think what we did right, but whatever it was appears to have worked.

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 12:01 ----------

 

 

You could easily google ‘feral’, you would then have your answer, we obviously lead completely different lives, mine is very pleasant by the way.

 

I'm aware what the word 'feral' means. Less aware of what you mean when you say 'feral boys'.

 

I'm not sure anyone who has 'no respect' for girls that get pregnant underage could ever be described as 'pleasant'.

 

Considering you seem to exist in a state of fear and terror, I think you might be lying anyway!

 

Heaven forbid you had a daughter that got pregnant underage.

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 12:51 ----------

 

Maybe we could send the poor , misunderstood little cherubs on a Safari holiday to make them feel wanted. :roll:

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 12:45 ----------

 

 

No , they are spot on with their view.

 

The only way to deal with these people is very long prison sentences.

 

caught carrying a knife............ mandatory 10 year sentence.

Stab someone ............ mandatory 20 years

Kill someone with a knife ........... a whole life tariff .

 

Isn't a combination of the two possible? Stiff prison sentences, but some sort of understanding as to WHY the problems exist, and what can be done long term to prevent young people committing crimes?

 

I'm all for both - some sort of acceptance that there are major issues these kids are facing that drive them to do these things, which need to be looked and rationally discussed, as well as very hefty and severe sentences once the line is crossed.

[Owethemnowt]

This debate has descended into the empty repitition of sterile arguments that only serve to perpetuate ignorance and intolerance.

 

There is no quick fix.

 

These 'feral' kids as some refer to them and which they are not, are the products of a wilfully neglectfull society. The rich prosper, get educated, have a future while those from the estates in the major cities are never seen let alone forgotten.

 

Society delivered these youths. A product of neglect.

 

They have always potentially existed but were found menial jobs in factories and obtained a place on the lower rungs of society. Tea makers and floor sweepers used to abound. But today we have this under class. Way below a working class. It survives in the sahdows, trapped in dire poverty, waiting at food banks, living off benefits and struggling to get by. That's your daily five on Lowedges. Dickens knew them in the East End of London.

 

That was a fiction based on truth.

 

That is a truth based on fact.

 

The Government, whatever colour, delivers policies that have turned our once respectable estates into depositories for the vulnerable, desperate and abandoned into the worst housing, if they qualify, or a friend's sofa if they don't. Next stop the park followed by the streets.

 

A life of crime along with the friendships found on the streets is the only thing on offer when there are no clubs for youth. No organised activities. No facilities. No voluntary workers, agencies or do gooders coming to assist. Nothing. Charities for Africa, dogs, cats, the deseased and blind so forget charity beginning at home. There's no charity shop for the abandoned of Lowedges lining the High Street at Woodseats.

 

But to blame the victims for being ..... victims, is wrong.

 

It is a case that there but for the grace of god. And god seems to visit as often as the Police despite the people of Lowedges being on their knees.

 

My generation, along with others, didn't face this vast wilderness of nothingness. Nothing to do. Nowhere to go. No hope. No future. No way. No chance. No thanks.

 

There were jobs. Thank you very much.

 

And the income held families together no matter what else they faced. Now, as we round here know, it really does tear families apart.

 

Witnessing someone paying a tenner on the leccy is a demoralising sight. Having a woman knock your door to borrow a fiver as its run out is pitiful. it must be terrible for those at Dore and Totley. To heat those houses must cost at least £20 to top up the meter.

 

But a life on benefits where baggy grey sweat pants are almost the compulsory fashion accessory, along with a baseball cap and a vitamen free diet has become de rigueur. All we need is some wannabe pop star to wear it on X-Factor and it'll be everywhere like the wearing of your trousers round your knees. As common as the Gucci handbags in the passenger seats of the Porches that drive past Bochum Parkway on their way to Twentywell Lane. Over that way where the other half live. Grenfell and Kensington. Lowedges and Dore.

 

As unattractive as it really is for those at the bottom, these unfortunate human beings have little to offer. They remain ill educated at best and for that have a reason to be ignorant. But many of you posting your extremist views and adopted, unthinking arguments, do know better.

 

Remember who the victims are here.

 

There are two of them.

 

Both failed by society. Both with little hope in their lives when compared with the opportunities most of you reading this had and have to offer to your own children.

 

Whether both boys, victim and perpetrator, were known to the Police, doesn't deny the fact that society, the authorities have failed them. If known to the Police then interventions to alter behaviour have grossly failed. One has been killed. The other has killed.

 

These young lives clearly needed support beyond that of the family and have been failed by whatever interventionist measures may have been in place.

 

They are not the only ones.

 

The residents of Lowedges have been failed by the lack of a Police presents in the area for over two years. A school yard scuffle has been replaced by street stabbing. Nipping in the bud has been replaced by a Crown Court Committal. Life by death. Detention by Maximum Security.

 

Now the media has gone. 'Lowedges Recovering' is not news worthy. The Police presence though has been drastically increased. Give it another week and we'll be back to being another part of the no go area of the city.

 

And the drug activity will start up again, although it already has.

 

Business as usual until the next one.

 

Did anyone issue the final insult and patronise us with a hollow 'never again'? Has anyone seen Louise Haigh, after all it made National news. Suely she could 'find a window' and leave the Westminster bubble. Have we had a mobile Police Station parked up? Local Councillors on the door step? Got a meeting planned? Leaflet drop? Police Commander, after all it is the violent death of a child, come and visit the scene?

 

Thought not.

 

Left to just get on with it then.

 

They who have no voice.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Owethemnowt

[despritdan]

It's true that the lack of job opportunities since we lost our industrial base and closed the mines has had a devastating effect on those at the bottom. At one time, there were plenty of jobs for school leavers with low intelligence and no qualifications and these gave them a stake in society, creating social cohesion and quite low crime rates compared to now. They are now surplus to requirements with no opportunity to be useful members of society, which has slowly but surely turned them into an underclass, reliant on benefits with anti-social attitudes.

However, I don't think we can keep on ignoring the elephant in the room which is this country's immigration policies for the last few decades which has created an unsustainable population, making the situation worse. If there are no jobs for our own youths, why are we allowing an extra 400,000 people a year into the country? Unscrupulous employers prefer to use cheap immigrant labour than pay young Brits a decent wage and there are job agencies run by foreigners in this country who will not employ British workers which is an absurd situation. We also can't ignore black cultural attitudes when it comes to the increase in knife and gun crime, which is why playground scuffles have turned into stabbings and shootings. We need to stop mass immigration especially of people from violent, dog eat dog countries who bring their cultural attitudes with them instead of sticking our heads in the sand and pretending it isn't a problem.

[tinfoilhat]

More stop and search, mandatory 2yrs for carrying a knife, full life tarrif for a fatality knife crime. Time to get very very tough with these people .

 

What a load of old <removed>.

 

It's not the knives that are the problem, it's the stabbing and the propensity for violence too many young people have. I, and many others, carry a knife daily. Do you think I'm going to try and stab someone?

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 21:48 ----------

 

Maybe we could send the poor , misunderstood little cherubs on a Safari holiday to make them feel wanted. :roll:

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 12:45 ----------

 

 

No , they are spot on with their view.

 

The only way to deal with these people is very long prison sentences.

 

caught carrying a knife............ mandatory 10 year sentence.

.

 

Fly tipping, illegal red diesel use and running dodgy fags presumably are all ok.

Edited May 29, 2018 by nikki-red

[sedith]

Not just Sheffield though - it's across the country.

 

Not here it isn't in West Somerset. It saddens me that Sheffield has come to this

[melthebell]

What a load of old <removed>.

 

It's not the knives that are the problem, it's the stabbing and the propensity for violence too many young people have. I, and many others, carry a knife daily. Do you think I'm going to try and stab someone?

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 21:48 ----------

 

 

Fly tipping, illegal red diesel use and running dodgy fags presumably are all ok.

of course they are, if he does them theres nothing wrong with it

[hackey lad]

This debate has descended into the empty repitition of sterile arguments that only serve to perpetuate ignorance and intolerance.

 

There is no quick fix.

 

These 'feral' kids as some refer to them and which they are not, are the products of a wilfully neglectfull society. The rich prosper, get educated, have a future while those from the estates in the major cities are never seen let alone forgotten.

 

Society delivered these youths. A product of neglect.

 

They have always potentially existed but were found menial jobs in factories and obtained a place on the lower rungs of society. Tea makers and floor sweepers used to abound. But today we have this under class. Way below a working class. It survives in the sahdows, trapped in dire poverty, waiting at food banks, living off benefits and struggling to get by. That's your daily five on Lowedges. Dickens knew them in the East End of London.

 

That was a fiction based on truth.

 

That is a truth based on fact.

 

The Government, whatever colour, delivers policies that have turned our once respectable estates into depositories for the vulnerable, desperate and abandoned into the worst housing, if they qualify, or a friend's sofa if they don't. Next stop the park followed by the streets.

 

A life of crime along with the friendships found on the streets is the only thing on offer when there are no clubs for youth. No organised activities. No facilities. No voluntary workers, agencies or do gooders coming to assist. Nothing. Charities for Africa, dogs, cats, the deseased and blind so forget charity beginning at home. There's no charity shop for the abandoned of Lowedges lining the High Street at Woodseats.

 

But to blame the victims for being ..... victims, is wrong.

 

It is a case that there but for the grace of god. And god seems to visit as often as the Police despite the people of Lowedges being on their knees.

 

My generation, along with others, didn't face this vast wilderness of nothingness. Nothing to do. Nowhere to go. No hope. No future. No way. No chance. No thanks.

 

There were jobs. Thank you very much.

 

And the income held families together no matter what else they faced. Now, as we round here know, it really does tear families apart.

 

Witnessing someone paying a tenner on the leccy is a demoralising sight. Having a woman knock your door to borrow a fiver as its run out is pitiful. it must be terrible for those at Dore and Totley. To heat those houses must cost at least £20 to top up the meter.

 

But a life on benefits where baggy grey sweat pants are almost the compulsory fashion accessory, along with a baseball cap and a vitamen free diet has become de rigueur. All we need is some wannabe pop star to wear it on X-Factor and it'll be everywhere like the wearing of your trousers round your knees. As common as the Gucci handbags in the passenger seats of the Porches that drive past Bochum Parkway on their way to Twentywell Lane. Over that way where the other half live. Grenfell and Kensington. Lowedges and Dore.

 

As unattractive as it really is for those at the bottom, these unfortunate human beings have little to offer. They remain ill educated at best and for that have a reason to be ignorant. But many of you posting your extremist views and adopted, unthinking arguments, do know better.

 

Remember who the victims are here.

 

There are two of them.

 

Both failed by society. Both with little hope in their lives when compared with the opportunities most of you reading this had and have to offer to your own children.

 

Whether both boys, victim and perpetrator, were known to the Police, doesn't deny the fact that society, the authorities have failed them. If known to the Police then interventions to alter behaviour have grossly failed. One has been killed. The other has killed.

 

These young lives clearly needed support beyond that of the family and have been failed by whatever interventionist measures may have been in place.

 

They are not the only ones.

 

The residents of Lowedges have been failed by the lack of a Police presents in the area for over two years. A school yard scuffle has been replaced by street stabbing. Nipping in the bud has been replaced by a Crown Court Committal. Life by death. Detention by Maximum Security.

 

Now the media has gone. 'Lowedges Recovering' is not news worthy. The Police presence though has been drastically increased. Give it another week and we'll be back to being another part of the no go area of the city.

 

And the drug activity will start up again, although it already has.

 

Business as usual until the next one.

 

Did anyone issue the final insult and patronise us with a hollow 'never again'? Has anyone seen Louise Haigh, after all it made National news. Suely she could 'find a window' and leave the Westminster bubble. Have we had a mobile Police Station parked up? Local Councillors on the door step? Got a meeting planned? Leaflet drop? Police Commander, after all it is the violent death of a child, come and visit the scene?

 

Thought not.

 

Left to just get on with it then.

 

They who have no voice.

 

What do you know about these cases , that allows you to say they were " both failed by society " ?

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 22:13 ----------

 

It's true that the lack of job opportunities since we lost our industrial base and closed the mines has had a devastating effect on those at the bottom. At one time, there were plenty of jobs for school leavers with low intelligence and no qualifications and these gave them a stake in society, creating social cohesion and quite low crime rates compared to now. They are now surplus to requirements with no opportunity to be useful members of society, which has slowly but surely turned them into an underclass, reliant on benefits with anti-social attitudes.

However, I don't think we can keep on ignoring the elephant in the room which is this country's immigration policies for the last few decades which has created an unsustainable population, making the situation worse. If there are no jobs for our own youths, why are we allowing an extra 400,000 people a year into the country? Unscrupulous employers prefer to use cheap immigrant labour than pay young Brits a decent wage and there are job agencies run by foreigners in this country who will not employ British workers which is an absurd situation. We also can't ignore black cultural attitudes when it comes to the increase in knife and gun crime, which is why playground scuffles have turned into stabbings and shootings. We need to stop mass immigration especially of people from violent, dog eat dog countries who bring their cultural attitudes with them instead of sticking our heads in the sand and pretending it isn't a problem.

 

Theres a lot of ( uncomfortable) truth in that post

[mickey finn]

True hackey lad.