The biggest killer of men under 45

[Olive]

I agree in that addiction sneaks up on people, and ultimately can cause great distress, but drug/alcohol use does not necessarily lead to addiction. I think there are many more reasons for suicide than addiction, or even drug use.

 

A lot of young people seem to have lost all hope for the future and sink into depression, these are the ones who may then self medicate with alcohol and drugs. It's a chicken or egg situation.

 

But the real concern for me is why young people are losing hope to the point where they want to commit suicide.

 

Sure, good points, thanks for clarifying. I was just adressing that particular tangent:).

 

An interesting question for me is not so much what causes the hopelessness (there will be nearly as many causes as there are are cases), but what are the underlying statisical trends?

 

By many measures, life is undeniably better now than a hundred years ago. People (especially the working classes) lived hard, often short lives. Hand to mouth, no social security, no health service.

 

What were suicide figures like historically? Are we facing an epidemic now, or are we just more aware?

 

The ONS seems to suggest suicide rates (for men and women) have declined since the 80s.

 

Not to diminish ANY case, of course.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

And did trends change as a result of the 1961 Act?

[Anna B]

Sure, good points, thanks for clarifying. I was just adressing that particular tangent:).

 

An interesting question for me is not so much what causes the hopelessness (there will be nearly as many causes as there are are cases), but what are the underlying statisical trends?

 

By many measures, life is undeniably better now than a hundred years ago. People (especially the working classes) lived hard, often short lives. Hand to mouth, no social security, no health service.

 

What were suicide figures like historically? Are we facing an epidemic now, or are we just more aware?

 

The ONS seems to suggest suicide rates (for men and women) have declined since the 80s.

 

Not to diminish ANY case, of course.

 

Are these any help?

 

https://www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/Suicide_statistics_report_2017_Final%282%29.pdf

 

Bearing in mind all the extensive blurb too, which advises a note of caution with statistics, in that suicide is often under reported, several variables, geographical irregularities etc

 

With relation to 100 years ago, suicide was illegal then, so family would be at great pains to cover it up. And I'd argue there were more ways of killing yourself without being noticed. Not much in the way of forensic investigation back then..

Edited June 6, 2018 by Anna B
forensic

[Olive]

Are these any help?

 

https://www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/Suicide_statistics_report_2017_Final%282%29.pdf

 

Bearing in mind all the extensive blurb too, which advises a note of caution with statistics, in that suicide is often under reported, several variables, geographical irregularities etc

 

With relation to 100 years ago, suicide was illegal then, so family would be at great pains to cover it up. And I'd argue there were more ways of killing yourself without being noticed. Not much in the way of forensic investigation back then..

 

Very useful Ana. I'll have to give it a good read, but on an initial glance the UK figures over time match what the ONS was saying, a steady decline ovrall since the 80s.

 

Yes, what they're saying about stats and under reporting is inteesting. In the case of one of my friends who hung herself, the coroner didn't record a verdict of suicide, saying he couldn't be absolutely sure that she intended to die. Which makes me wonder what it takes for a coroner to actually go as far as recording a suicide verdict.

[Ridgewalk]

None of the people I knew killed themselves on impulse, and I wouldn't confuse using deadly means with aggression. Each left ample evidence that it was well planned and executed (forgive the phraseology). Dispair and intent are better words.

 

I believe hopelessness is the biggest indicator of risk of suicide. Not all suicides are by people who are depressed. Guilt and shame are also emotions that lead to suicide.

 

On a sociological level changes in patterns of employment ie. decline in jobs in heavy industries like mining, steel and heavy engineering jobs which provided status and employment primarily for males. On the other hand the work force has become increasingly féminiséd due to the changing nature of work.

 

I’ve not actually been affected by suicide of close family or friends but seen successful suicides and the immediate aftermath on a number of occasions. I’ve also prevented a couple. I’ve seen numerous attempts at self harm

 

---------- Post added 06-06-2018 at 20:37 ----------

 

The NHS is being deliberately underfunded in order to give the impression that it's unsustainable by the tories.

 

Agreed. You don’t need the NHS if you can afford private health care

 

---------- Post added 06-06-2018 at 20:42 ----------

 

I think the cannabis thing is a bit of a Red herring.

 

I've talked to police about this, and they say alcohol (the misuse of) is a far bigger problem than cannabis, and if it was a new thing would probably be regarded as an 'A' class, mind altering drug. A greater proportion of casual drinkers become alcoholics, than casual cannabis users become paranoid.

 

The problem with Cannabis is that because it's bought and sold illegally, by some very dodgy people, it can bring users into contact with far worse drugs that do the real damage.

 

I think in relation to suicide, the more relevant question is, why do people feel the need to self medicate with cannabis or alcohol?

 

The police are more likely to come into contact with people through alcohol related issues. In my experience the police aren’t interested in anything that doesn’t affect them, they are good at what the do, but they have a limited remit

[rivermel]

My husband's best mate committed suicide. He was 35. Now, my husband suffers from depression and it's hard to know how he will feel one day to the next.

 

It's easier for people to say, get over it or pull yourself together but it really isn't that simple and unfortunately not a doable thing to do when people are so low like this. It's really sad.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

I wonder whether suicide-committers fully understand the impact on their nearest/dearest and the irreversibility of their action. Families of a couple of suicides whom I've known (one at school, one at university) never really recover from it.

[Halibut]

I wonder whether suicide-committers fully understand the impact on their nearest/dearest and the irreversibility of their action. Families of a couple of suicides whom I've known (one at school, one at university) never really recover from it.

 

I'm sure that in a majority cases the answer to that question is no - it's in the nature of depressive illness and suicidal thinking that people's perceptions and thinking become very distorted - to the point where they believe that those that love them (and indeed the world in general) will be better off without them.

People often describe suicide as an act of total selfishness - and it's easy to understand why; my view after two decades as a psychiatric nurse and a degree of personal experience is that such a description is unfair. Those who kill themselves are very ill, without hope and lack the clarity of thinking to be able to see beyond ending their own pain.