The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

[ECCOnoob]

The negotiations should have been done by professionals who know how to drive a hard bargain, not some wishy washy grey woman who has spent her entire life sitting on the fence and keeping her head down.

 

The EU has been contemptuous of her from the start. She has succeeded only in enhancing their arrogance.

 

Oh come off it Anna.

 

You really do make yourself look more silly than you clearly are.

 

You dont seriously think for one second that these extremely complex and detailed negotiations are dealt with by way of Teresa and Michael alone sitting in a room over coffee arguing the toss.

 

She is the Prime Minister of this nation. So of course she is going to be the figurehead of them. Of course she is going to be the one who addresses the party, media and the population about them.

 

But to seriously think that she is personally expected to have complete unilateral knowledge, directive and control of every single aspect involved in the negotiations is just ridiculous.

 

She will have teams of advisors, researchers, lawyers and assistants involved - many of which will be those so called experts who you purport are necessary.

 

You think Barnier is doing it all alone with his "expertise"?

 

Maybe, just maybe, if extremists in her own party weren't undermining her every 5 seconds OR all the sore loser remainers wern't demanding that she u-turns on brexit every 5 seconds OR half the opposition benches, despite their own leader happy to let brexit slip through, weren't demanding her head on a plate just for being a tory...... then maybe, we wouldn't look so "weak" in our negotiation position in the first place.

 

She was handed a poisoned chalice. Dont leave and that's a smack in the face to all those who voted in a referendum her predecessor created for us population who allegedly demanded it. Do leave and the losing side demand she resigns, leaves, falls of a cliff, gets stabbed in the back/front/sides by her political colleagues.

 

Quite frankly I admire her for sticking it out this long. She has never since day one of her PM career rushed into anything. She makes decisions when she is ready to make them. She clearly isn't going to be bulled into making one now with one of the biggest decisions for 50 years.

 

Good for her IMO.

[Top Cats Hat]

The negotiations should have been done by professionals who know how to drive a hard bargain,

 

 

You just don't get it do you?

 

We have knackered ourselves economically by triggering Article 50, so any deal we get will be very poor and nowhere near as good as the one we have now.

 

It really doesn't matter a jot who does the negotiation. If Admiral Dönitz had surrendered to the Western allies instead of General Jodl, would Germany have won better surrender terms?

[Lockdoctor]

Oh come off it Anna.

 

You really do make yourself look more silly than you clearly are.

 

You dont seriously think for one second that these extremely complex and detailed negotiations are dealt with by way of Teresa and Michael alone sitting in a room over coffee arguing the toss.

 

She is the Prime Minister of this nation. So of course she is going to be the figurehead of them. Of course she is going to be the one who addresses the party, media and the population about them.

 

But to seriously think that she is personally expected to have complete unilateral knowledge, directive and control of every single aspect involved in the negotiations is just ridiculous.

 

She will have teams of advisors, researchers, lawyers and assistants involved - many of which will be those so called experts who you purport are necessary.

 

You think Barnier is doing it all alone with his "expertise"?

 

Maybe, just maybe, if extremists in her own party weren't undermining her every 5 seconds OR all the sore loser remainers wern't demanding that she u-turns on brexit every 5 seconds OR half the opposition benches, despite their own leader happy to let brexit slip through, weren't demanding her head on a plate just for being a tory...... then maybe, we wouldn't look so "weak" in our negotiation position in the first place.

 

She was handed a poisoned chalice. Dont leave and that's a smack in the face to all those who voted in a referendum her predecessor created for us population who allegedly demanded it. Do leave and the losing side demand she resigns, leaves, falls of a cliff, gets stabbed in the back/front/sides by her political colleagues.

 

Quite frankly I admire her for sticking it out this long. She has never since day one of her PM career rushed into anything. She makes decisions when she is ready to make them. She clearly isn't going to be bulled into making one now with one of the biggest decisions for 50 years.

 

Good for her IMO.

A very good post.

 

I watched the events in Parliament this afternoon about Brexit. One MP stands up and asks Mrs May a question which she answers then a few minutes later another MP stands up and asks the same question and is given the same answer. Five minutes later the same question is asked again my another MP etc etc. There must have been ten MPs who asked about a so called Peoples Vote and they were all given the same answer.

[L00b]

The DUP are the only UK political party, who have representation in Parliament who officially campaigned for the whole of the UK to leave the EU. The DUP are fighting for both the wishes of Northern Ireland people who vote for them in elections and the whole of the people in the UK, who voted to leave the EU. The backstop which the EU want, would effectively keep Northern Ireland in the EU while the rest of the UK wouldn't be in the EU. A political party who campaigned for the whole of the UK to leave the EU and were on the winning side of the referendum result are hardly likely to support a backstop , which would mean that their own region would be the only UK region, that remained in the EU.

I'm not bothering with that post, or with you for a good while: it's crystal-clear that you have no moral compass, nor any understanding whatsoever of Ireland, nor any understanding whatsoever of international agreements and responsibilities of co-signatories under them, and still less capacity to understand simple logic.

 

Self-interested or simply blinded, you're an ideologist, so you can join Bojo and JRM on my virtual ignore list

There was nothing semantic about the wording in 2016 we were offered the choice to remain or leave it really was that simple.

Then why are you still here in the EU 2 years on?

 

Stop begging for a deal already, jog on without one, see how you fare?

 

The insults, lies, responsibility shirking and false blaming at the EU27 will be still be the same anyway.

The negotiations should have been done by professionals who know how to drive a hard bargain, not some wishy washy grey woman who has spent her entire life sitting on the fence and keeping her head down.

I disagree: her hostile environment policy is working perfectly fine. Last manifested in today's updated criteria for settled status evidence. Less evidence accepted, more (previously accepted) evidence disallowed. Including payslips.

 

PS - Tim (and any other @3Million reading this forum), I've told you before, I'm telling you again, and I'll tell you again until March'19: GTFO. Stat. You're just 'negotiation chips' for now still. Victimhood isn't much removed, especially in the aftermath of a hard Brexit.

The EU has been contemptuous of her from the start. She has succeeded only in enhancing their arrogance.

All 'the EU' has ever done after TM got the No.10 job, was work with her, giving her all the political assist she's asked for to help her do her job at home. If it wasn't for the EU, she'd have been out of a job last December, maybe earlier still.

 

After the taunts, insults, lies, responsibility shirking and false blaming of your government and politicians of the past 2 years, you don't get to give lessons about 'arrogance'.

 

Arrogance is claiming loud and clear that you're going to have your cake and eating it at the expense of the EU27 to its face, that the EU is some sort of jackbooted prison guard shackling the UK, that it's the new USSR, that it owes the UK a living, that Ireland should Irexit to solve the NI border conundrum, <1000s more over the past 2+ years>

 

They say pride comes before a fall. Well, that cliff side is mighty tall, and it's getting mighty close.

Edited October 22, 2018 by L00b

[hobinfoot]

Yes but leave can mean many things to many people.

 

In its strictest sense leave means just walk away without a deal. If we don't do that then someone has to decide what level of attachment we want to have with the EU.

I found the question leave or stay unambiguous. If we voted leave then we leave. It now remains for the government and eu to come up with a mutually beneficial deal. Both sides have said that 95% is already done so I can't see us leaving without a deal.

[Top Cats Hat]

 

Both sides have said that 95% is already done so I can't see us leaving without a deal.

 

I agree, but those who want no deal (or a completely unrealistic deal) at present have the upper hand in the Conservative Party and are hamstringing Mrs May from getting a deal (albeit a vey poor one!)

[tinfoilhat]

A very good post.

 

I watched the events in Parliament this afternoon about Brexit. One MP stands up and asks Mrs May a question which she answers then a few minutes later another MP stands up and asks the same question and is given the same answer. Five minutes later the same question is asked again my another MP etc etc. There must have been ten MPs who asked about a so called Peoples Vote and they were all given the same answer.

 

Thats how questions are done. An MP tables a question - well ahead of time - so who ever is answering the question knows the answer already. What do you think she's got in those folders, crosswords or details on every single conceivable question an MP might ask on any subject, ever.

 

---------- Post added 22-10-2018 at 21:07 ----------

 

I found the question leave or stay unambiguous. If we voted leave then we leave. It now remains for the government and eu to come up with a mutually beneficial deal. Both sides have said that 95% is already done so I can't see us leaving without a deal.

 

So all that needs to be done is for said deal to get voted through parliament.

 

Easy peasy.

[Lockdoctor]

I'm not bothering with that post, or with you for a good while: it's crystal-clear that you have no moral compass, nor any understanding whatsoever of Ireland, nor any understanding whatsoever of international agreements and responsibilities of co-signatories under them, and still less capacity to understand simple logic.

 

Self-interested or simply blinded, you're an ideologist, so you can join Bojo and JRM on my virtual ignore list

The DUP are standing up for their principles.

 

Kate Hoey a person who knows much more about Ireland than you do, stood up in Parliament today and said the whole Irish border situation is a nonsense. She said Northern Ireland don't want an Hard Border, The Republic of Ireland don't want an hard Border and the EU don't want an harder border and the UK Government don't want an hard border. Whatever the outcome of Brexit negotiations will not bring back an hard border.

 

---------- Post added 22-10-2018 at 21:27 ----------

 

Thats how questions are done. An MP tables a question - well ahead of time - so who ever is answering the question knows the answer already. What do you think she's got in those folders, crosswords or details on every single conceivable question an MP might ask on any subject, ever.

I think you misunderstood. Sorry for not explaining properly. It wasn't Prime Minister's questions, it was a statement where Mrs May was updating parliament about Brexit. The MPs then asked Mrs May questions based on what she had just told them. My point is MPs wasted time by asking questions which had already been asked and answered.

[Penistone999]

The negotiations should have been done by professionals who know how to drive a hard bargain, not some wishy washy grey woman who has spent her entire life sitting on the fence and keeping her head down.

 

The EU has been contemptuous of her from the start. She has succeeded only in enhancing their arrogance.

 

The mistake we made was making a Remainer prime minister when Cameron quit. It should have been a hardline Brexiteer .

[andyofborg]

The DUP are standing up for their principles.

 

Kate Hoey a person who knows much more about Ireland than you do, stood up in Parliament today and said the whole Irish border situation is a nonsense. She said Northern Ireland don't want an Hard Border, The Republic of Ireland don't want an hard Border and the EU don't want an harder border and the UK Government don't want an hard border. Whatever the outcome of Brexit negotiations will not bring back an hard border.

 

how do you know kate hoey knows more about ireland than some of us here do? the current northern ireland secretary of state has admitted she knew very little and, it would appear far less than many here about ireland.

 

while it's quite correct that no one wants a hard border, decisions have consequences, some of them unintended. Some of the other decisions regarding our future relationship with the EU would seem to make a hard border of one form or another more likely.

 

of course, the fact that there is a border at all is a result of decisions taken 90odd years ago by the uk parliament.