The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

[Top Cats Hat]

election are won on far less are they not?

 

They are, which is why the system should be changed.

 

We had an opportunity to do that in 2011 and voted to leave the system unchanged. One of the reasons why this whole thing is such an unholy mess is that despite all the shouts of 'respect the will of the people', it really is NOT the will of the majority of the people to leave the EU.

 

It wasn't in 2016 and it isn't now. You can never make something work if the majority of the people are against it unless of course, we live in a dictatorship.

[ECCOnoob]

They are, which is why the system should be changed.

 

We had an opportunity to do that in 2011 and voted to leave the system unchanged. One of the reasons why this whole thing is such an unholy mess is that despite all the shouts of 'respect the will of the people', it really is NOT the will of the majority of the people to leave the EU.

 

It wasn't in 2016 and it isn't now. You can never make something work if the majority of the people are against it unless of course, we live in a dictatorship.

 

Ah right. Thanks for that.

 

If proved wrong and get called out, change the subject.

[phil752]

They are, which is why the system should be changed.

 

We had an opportunity to do that in 2011 and voted to leave the system unchanged. One of the reasons why this whole thing is such an unholy mess is that despite all the shouts of 'respect the will of the people', it really is NOT the will of the majority of the people to leave the EU.

 

It wasn't in 2016 and it isn't now. You can never make something work if the majority of the people are against it unless of course, we live in a dictatorship.

 

so it was again re run and was a similar leave vote you would be full behind it?

[tinfoilhat]

No one at present knows that for a fact

 

Go on then. Lets look at some options. We sign a deal - let's say Norway plus. We pay more or less the same money, we can kick the Irish border into the long grass and Airbus etc breath a deep sigh of relief and we carry on more less as now - but zero say. Happy with that? Or a no deal, hard Irish borders trade deals when we are the junior partner far often and the economy tanks. We are now out and our terms of entry will be rotten, far worse than now. Then what?

 

Now if we do really well, I'll scream "I was wrong" from the highest mountain but given the outlook from most quarters, that's unlikely. I'm not sure we can run a country on "Lets just hope for the best" can we?

[phil752]

Go on then. Lets look at some options. We sign a deal - let's say Norway plus. We pay more or less the same money, we can kick the Irish border into the long grass and Airbus etc breath a deep sigh of relief and we carry on more less as now - but zero say. Happy with that? Or a no deal, hard Irish borders trade deals when we are the junior partner far often and the economy tanks. We are now out and our terms of entry will be rotten, far worse than now. Then what?

 

Now if we do really well, I'll scream "I was wrong" from the highest mountain but given the outlook from most quarters, that's unlikely. I'm not sure we can run a country on "Lets just hope for the best" can we?

 

i don't think a Norway type deal is on the cards.

 

It would hurt the EU as much as us if we had hard borders.

 

I feel the Irish question is just EU playing its last card, do you believe peace in Ireland is so fragile.

Edited November 6, 2018 by phil752

[ECCOnoob]

Go on then. Lets look at some options. We sign a deal - let's say Norway plus. We pay more or less the same money, we can kick the Irish border into the long grass and Airbus etc breath a deep sigh of relief and we carry on more less as now - but zero say. Happy with that? Or a no deal, hard Irish borders trade deals when we are the junior partner far often and the economy tanks. We are now out and our terms of entry will be rotten, far worse than now. Then what?

 

Now if we do really well, I'll scream "I was wrong" from the highest mountain but given the outlook from most quarters, that's unlikely. I'm not sure we can run a country on "Lets just hope for the best" can we?

 

What's wrong with letting the people paid to do the job of running the country get on with it.

 

When they have sort out a proposed deal and then we can consider those things called FACTS.

 

Quite frankly I am bored with the endless speculation, opinion and prediction.

 

Makes me wonder if people had actually let the relevant powers get on with sorting out a deal without constantly undermining, having tantrums, name calling and generally spewing their bile all over the press and broadcasts we might have progrssed with a first draft a lot quicker.

[Top Cats Hat]

 

Look at the facts. 72% of the electorate voted in this referendum. Leave voters took the highest % share. In a two option vote highest share wins.

 

Nobody wins.

 

It was simply an advisory referendum and as I pointed out earlier, what the referendum showed was neither remain nor leave could attract the support of even 40% of the electorate.

 

So common sense would say that without a strong indication that the populous wants change, the advice would be to leave things as they are. That's why I've never advocated a second referendum. It is unnecessary. We just need a government which will put the interests of the country first.

[phil752]

Nobody wins.

 

It was simply an advisory referendum and as I pointed out earlier, what the referendum showed was neither remain nor leave could attract the support of even 40% of the electorate.

 

So common sense would say that without a strong indication that the populous wants change, the advice would be to leave things as they are. That's why I've never advocated a second referendum. It is unnecessary. We just need a government which will put the interests of the country first.

 

so again if we re run it and got the same result you would be fully behind it yes?

[tinfoilhat]

What's wrong with letting the people paid to do the job of running the country get on with it.

 

When they have sort out a proposed deal and then we can consider those things called FACTS.

 

Quite frankly I am bored with the endless speculation, opinion and prediction.

 

Makes me wonder if people had actually let the relevant powers get on with sorting out a deal without constantly undermining, having tantrums, name calling and generally spewing their bile all over the press and broadcasts we might have progrssed with a first draft a lot quicker.

 

You could put 650 of our elected officials in a a sealed vacuum and they won't sort it out in 10 years let alone two. If we had vaguely competent elected officials we wouldn't have had a referendum at all. Speaking of competent elected officials, there's a chance that in the next few years, nay months, diane Abbott could be home secretary. For realsies.

 

The two main parties can't agree with their own side, let alone the opposition to drag something through. Sorry, I've zero faith in our government and our opposition and there is zero evidence they can vaguely fix it. They are being called out for their ineptitude and they thoroughly deserve it, every single one of them.

[Top Cats Hat]

so again if we re run it and got the same result you would be fully behind it yes?

 

No, of course not.