L00b Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Just now, Magilla said: A contract for something which the government insists won't happen, connected to a project consisting entirely of fantasies and delusions, being awarded to a ferry operation which doesn't exist! You forgot the bit about paid-for with real-enough taxpayers' money, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said: <...> Control is the ability to decide who, what, how many and on what grounds. A system that many other developed countries all over the world have - something we currently lacking under EU open freedom of movement. I am no brexiteer but you can hardly be critical of a system that other countries have been doing for decades. <...> Nonsense. All EU28 have EU law-provided measures to control FoM populations through earnings and residency criteria. In a nutshell, under these EU regs if you as an EU immigrant can't pay your way in the host EU state within 3 months from arrival (besides 'profitability', there are also criminality-related criteria), that host EU state is full entitled to chuck you out. The UK government never bothered to implement such a system, indeed it never even bothered implementing a registration system (long in use by most other EU27 member states precisely to -you guessed it- control FoM immigration), and actually pushed for more EU immigration earlier than other EU states by waving quotas and cur-off dates on new EU accession countries (eg from Romania and Bulgaria, which couldn't FoM anywhere else than the UK in the EU when they joined, because all other EU states had implemented those quotas and cut-off dates). The UK has had a PBS to control non-EU immigration, one of the most stringent amongst EU states, since before 2008 - and made still more stringent from 2010 onwards. Still, non-EU 'PBS-checked' immigration comfortably exceeds EU 'FoM' immigration. You've perhaps got to ask yourself some questions, there. Besides a long list of itching, unconfortable questions to MPs that you elected (or not) over the years. Edited December 31, 2018 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said: Errm, having a set number of visas and the ability to apply conditions to the holders of said visas is control isn't it?? Nobody apart from moron extreme right wingers actually thought we will be closing all the doors and pulling up the drawbridge. Control is the ability to decide who, what, how many and on what grounds. A system that many other developed countries all over the world have - something we currently lacking under EU open freedom of movement. I am no brexiteer but you can hardly be critical of a system that other countries have been doing for decades. If India is asking for 200k visas as part of the agreement then good for them - equally we can either disagree, amend the number or set the terms. It's called negotiation. The trade deal is just that. A deal. Bartering. Agreement. Whatever you want to call it. You scratch my back I scratch yours etc. Its how it always works. Again, nobody, with exception of the moron extreme right wingers, actually thinks that we can negotiate a deal without giving some concessions It’s not 2016 any more Your fantasies should be dead by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrexitGuy Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 25 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said: Errm, having a set number of visas and the ability to apply conditions to the holders of said visas is control isn't it?? Nobody apart from moron extreme right wingers actually thought we will be closing all the doors and pulling up the drawbridge. Control is the ability to decide who, what, how many and on what grounds. A system that many other developed countries all over the world have - something we currently lacking under EU open freedom of movement. I am no brexiteer but you can hardly be critical of a system that other countries have been doing for decades. If India is asking for 200k visas as part of the agreement then good for them - equally we can either disagree, amend the number or set the terms. It's called negotiation. The trade deal is just that. A deal. Bartering. Agreement. Whatever you want to call it. You scratch my back I scratch yours etc. Its how it always works. Again, nobody, with exception of the moron extreme right wingers, actually thinks that we can negotiate a deal without giving some concessions Quite a good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said: Errm, having a set number of visas and the ability to apply conditions to the holders of said visas is control isn't it? I'm not sure how increasing immigration significantly in order to secure trade deals helps re: immigration concerns. Quote Nobody apart from moron extreme right wingers actually thought we will be closing all the doors and pulling up the drawbridge. The point being that in this case, we'd be lowering the drawbridge and opening the doors. Something tells me the UK will be desperate to secure deals, and as the smaller party will almost certainly have to concede the most. Quote Control is the ability to decide who, what, how many and on what grounds. A system that many other developed countries all over the world have - something we currently lacking under EU open freedom of movement. We are not in shengen, FoM doesn't give any right to stay in the UK if you can't support yourself. FoM in relation to immigration concerns is a red herring. Quote I am no brexiteer but you can hardly be critical of a system that other countries have been doing for decades. If India is asking for 200k visas as part of the agreement then good for them - equally we can either disagree, amend the number or set the terms. It's called negotiation. If the result of the negotiation is to increase immigration that sorta makes a mockery of the whole Brexit process. What on earth makes you think the UK will secure better terms than we already enjoy as part of the EU? I suspect we won't, hence the humiliation bit..... Quote The trade deal is just that. A deal. Bartering. Agreement. Whatever you want to call it. You scratch my back I scratch yours etc. Its how it always works. Of course, the problem being that the larger partner (as India is) does far less scratching. Quote Again, nobody, with exception of the moron extreme right wingers, actually thinks that we can negotiate a deal without giving some concessions Cool, so what concessions are acceptable, and which aren't? 200k seems reasonable to me, given India's population.... do you think that is reasonable to the average leave voter? Unemployment is at record lows, clearly the UK needs *more* immigrants to maintain it's competitive advantage.. how will this be achieved if the concerns of leavers are to be taken on board? I would have thought staying in EASA, Euratom and Galileo would be a sensible compromise, but we're not... as such I have no faith that any trade deal will be a zero sum game, quite the oppposite. Edited December 31, 2018 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/31/brexit-ferry-firm-seaborne-says-it-will-be-up-and-running-before-end-of-march 19 hours ago, taxman said: The government has given £14million of taxpayers money to a company to run extra ferries in the event of a No Deal Brexit....unfortunately the company appears to a shell with no assets and no ships. When asked the CEO of the mysterios brand new company with no assets declined to give details on which ships it planned to use for the service, saying the information was "commercially sensitive". Sounds like money siphoned off to chums rather than proper established freight companies. Sounds okay to me. “Seaborne Freight will not be a ship owner, we are chartering in ships,” he told the Guardian. “It’s a unique combination of seafaring, City and finance and ferry industry experience, decades of it. This is not a startup. We’re all old dogs at this.” https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/31/brexit-ferry-firm-seaborne-says-it-will-be-up-and-running-before-end-of-march Edited December 31, 2018 by Lockdoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 29 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/31/brexit-ferry-firm-seaborne-says-it-will-be-up-and-running-before-end-of-march Sounds okay to me. “Seaborne Freight will not be a ship owner, we are chartering in ships,” he told the Guardian. “It’s a unique combination of seafaring, City and finance and ferry industry experience, decades of it. This is not a startup. We’re all old dogs at this.” https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/31/brexit-ferry-firm-seaborne-says-it-will-be-up-and-running-before-end-of-march We shall see how it pans out, seems a con to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 28 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/31/brexit-ferry-firm-seaborne-says-it-will-be-up-and-running-before-end-of-march Sounds okay to me. “Seaborne Freight will not be a ship owner, we are chartering in ships,” he told the Guardian. “It’s a unique combination of seafaring, City and finance and ferry industry experience, decades of it. This is not a startup. We’re all old dogs at this.” https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/31/brexit-ferry-firm-seaborne-says-it-will-be-up-and-running-before-end-of-march It’s a last minute panic measure,which whether it can happen or not illustrates how ill prepared we are for a no deal Brexit. Hopefully it can pursue its original intended purpose if sanity prevails in the multi faceted Brexit camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, melthebell said: We shall see how it pans out, seems a con to me Why does it seem like a con to you? Do you expect business people to do preparation work for a no Brexit deal free of charge? 7 minutes ago, RJRB said: It’s a last minute panic measure,which whether it can happen or not illustrates how ill prepared we are for a no deal Brexit. Hopefully it can pursue its original intended purpose if sanity prevails in the multi faceted Brexit camp. It's not the democratic people's fault if the UK are ill prepared for a no deal Brexit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 54 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said: It's not the democratic people's fault if the UK are ill prepared for a no deal Brexit . It's the "democratic people" who will suffer the consequences though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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