The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

[Lockdoctor]

Social care, winter fuel payments and student loans (and lots of other things) will always be a bigger concern for most people than brexit - that's why the leave campaigns were so desperate to avoid discussion of the economic consequences of what they were advocating.

My point is a General Election is never about one issue, which the last one proved, while a referendum vote is about one issue. Mrs May made a big mistake in over estimating the number of people who voted to leave the EU who would also vote for the Tory party in the General Election.

[truman]

If the UK are in a weak negotiating position, then it is the fault of all the MPs who have not accepted the referendum result and not supporting the UK completely leaving the EU. The EU know Parliament doesn't support BREXIT and are exploiting the situation. The situation would be no better, if there was a Labour Government.

 

What about those MPs whoes constituencies voted Remain? Would you expect them to just accept it and not show any opposition?

[L00b]

If the UK are in a weak negotiating position, then it is the fault of all the MPs who have not accepted the referendum result and not supporting the UK completely leaving the EU. The EU know Parliament doesn't support BREXIT and are exploiting the situation. The situation would be no better, if there was a Labour Government.

The UK were always in a weak negotiating position relative to the EU27 as a solitary bloc, and still more so once May triggered Article 50 and Parliament yay’d it.

 

The EU27 have never needed the U.K. more than the U.K. needed the EU.

 

Pity so very many failed to understand the above in good time, but no point crying over spilt milk now.

 

Accessorily, by the evidence of the latest posts, a lot of people have yet to learn, and understand, the difference between a representative democracy and an ochlocracy. I’m not surprised they’re on the Brexit-supporting side.

[Lockdoctor]

What about those MPs whoes constituencies voted Remain? Would you expect them to just accept it and not show any opposition?

Yes, because the vote to leave was a collective decision by the whole of the UK. I voted to Remain, but accept Leave WON. For BREXIT to work best, the UK has to fully leave the EU and all the MPs should have supported it.

[truman]

Yes, because the vote to leave was a collective decision by the whole of the UK. I voted to Remain, but accept Leave WON. For BREXIT to work best, the UK has to fully leave the EU and all the MPs should have supported it.

 

So in a GE when the "collective decision" is for a Tory goverment you'd expect Labour MP's to keep quiet? Or vice-versa ..If not then what,in your opinion,is the difference? And what about the SNP members? A whole country voted remain... what should they do?

Edited July 9, 2018 by truman

[Lockdoctor]

So in a GE when the "collective decision" is for a Tory goverment you'd expect Labour MP's to keep quiet? Or vice-versa ..If not then what,in your opinion,is the difference? And what about the SNP members? A whole country voted remain... what should they do?

You're not comparing like for like. A referendum is about one issue and is not the same as voting in a General Election when voters make their choice regarding many issues. Yes the SNP MPs should support the UK leaving the EU because large numbers of people in Scotland voted to leave. The vote to leave the EU was a decision made by the whole of the UK and Scotland is part of the UK. Individual regions of the UK were only used to count the vote and it is irrelevant how each individual region voted.

 

The Leave option received 52% of the vote while a ruling party in the UK receives less than 40% of the vote in UK General Elections.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Lockdoctor
added

[tinfoilhat]

For many people at the last election issues such as social care, winter fuel payments and student loans were a bigger priority than Brexit.

 

Not sure of your point regarding our chief negotiator. He seems to have resigned because he believes Mrs May is going to make too many concessions to the EU and she is putting the UK into a weak negotiating position. Time will tell if he is proved correct. He must have thought long and hard about his decision over the weekend.

 

Then you're left with the sovereignty of a uk government to handle a broad question how they see fit. If you don't like how they're doing it - and no matter how badly, they're still doing Brexit - then it's tough luck I'm afraid.

 

My point about Davis was that if he can't get a deal with his own PM how the **** was he going to get a deal with the EU.

[L00b]

Yes, because the vote to leave was a collective decision by the whole of the UK. I voted to Remain, but accept Leave WON. For BREXIT to work best, the UK has to fully leave the EU and all the MPs should have supported it.

It wasn’t a “decision”, it was an opinion poll result. Leave won the opinion poll.

 

The government and Parliament ensuing actions and votes made it a “decision”. Last I checked, political opposition was, and still is, a perfectly healthy activity in any democracy.

 

Those who would silence political opposition frequently answer the definition of “fascist”.

[altus]

My point is a General Election is never about one issue, which the last one proved, while a referendum vote is about one issue. Mrs May made a big mistake in over estimating the number of people who voted to leave the EU who would also vote for the Tory party in the General Election.

Referendum votes have consequences that impact many areas so they should never really be about one issue. By deliberately avoiding discussion of the consequences of brexit the leave campaigns have left the government in the impossible position of delivering unicorns and rainbows whilst that the same time preventing any negative consequences. That the government have decided to focus on the things that people are most concerned about (social care, winter fuel payments, etc) should come as no surprise.

[Lockdoctor]

It wasn’t a “decision”, it was an opinion poll result. Leave won the opinion poll.

 

The government and Parliament ensuing actions and votes made it a “decision”. Last I checked, political opposition was, and still is, a perfectly healthy activity in any democracy.

 

Those who would silence political opposition frequently answer the definition of “fascist”.

You're just trying to split hairs. The UK people voted in the EU referendum with the understanding the UK Government would carry out which decision they made. There should be no political opposition to Brexit because the UK people were given the role to make that decision.

 

---------- Post added 09-07-2018 at 11:58 ----------

 

Then you're left with the sovereignty of a uk government to handle a broad question how they see fit. If you don't like how they're doing it - and no matter how badly, they're still doing Brexit - then it's tough luck I'm afraid.

 

My point about Davis was that if he can't get a deal with his own PM how the **** was he going to get a deal with the EU.

Thanks for the explanation of your point.