Top Cats Hat Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Brexiters want the world to turn back to 1953 and rationing hadn't ended by then. Just think how happy they'll be if it comes back. You may joke, but a poll sometime last year showed that the 39% of leave supporters think that losing their job would be a price worth paying for leaving the EU. What is this madness that has gripped some people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlittle Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Democracy is by no means perfect as what is happening with Brexit has demonstrated. All we can do is try and improve it so that it is more effective and efficient in bringing fair, just and balanced government. It relies on the people being informed, as fully as possible, on all issues although this can only ever be an ideal. Some believe democracy means what is best for themselves and others try to consider what is best for the country. We need to learn from the consequences of Brexit. Society has changed so much over the last few decades and is seemingly more selfish and materialistic with different values now than when some of the great social changes of the twentieth century came to fruition. However, we still have an unwritten social contract to honour between the people and government which defines the right to govern. We need to act on Brexit to strengthen and not weaken that. In recent days, I have heard various people known to me (and most of them highly skilled, trained and supposedly well-educated) state such things that (to paraphrase) "the legacy we leave to our children isn't important","let's send immigrants back", "the right of appeal isn't important in small disputes", "self - interest and the pursuit of material things is acceptable over societal needs" and " it doesn't matter if we bypass or even dispense with local authorities and nibble away at our democratic institutions". This saddens me as someone born in the 1940s. A referendum was not suitable to decide a multi-faceted issue such as Brexit and the public were not well- informed on the issues. My feeling is we need a new political alignment, maybe a new party, which can give a voice to all sensible arguments and hopefully rescue the country and our nation from this mess and its tattered reputation by re- stating our values, making democracy work efficiently and restoring social conscience and justice. We might just be able to restore our reputation and be successful economically again by remaining in Europe and becoming the instigator of reform from within although I'm not sure we have the political will, spirit or personalities to attempt it right now. But at least let us learn from Brexit. We do need a general election and maybe a referendum alongside it on the single issue of whether we remain or leave. Are we able to use the quagmire we find ourselves in to positive effect or do we lie down and suffer the consequences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 You may joke, but a poll sometime last year showed that the 39% of leave supporters think that losing their job would be a price worth paying for leaving the EU. .. and of course, they mean in, right up to the point when they or someone in their family gets their notice... then they won't be so keen I'll wager What is this madness that has gripped some people? Like the workers at Airbus in Wales, they just didn't believe it could happen, despite all warnings that no-deal will pretty much kill their jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cats Hat Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Like the workers at Airbus in Wales, they just didn't believe it could happen, despite all warnings that no-deal will pretty much kill their jobs I've never really got that. If you work for one of Europe's most successful businesses as well as being, with Boeing, one of the two largest aircraft manufacturers in the world, you wouldn't vote to leave the EU in a million years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Like the workers at Airbus in Wales, they just didn't believe it could happen, despite all warnings that no-deal will pretty much kill their jobs Ditto Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port. Especially now Peugeot own them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthor Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Hi Car Boot. What is there to fear in a second referendum? If leavers are genuinely the majority, this is the way to demonstrate that, beyond all doubt. If things have changed and the will of the people has changed, shouldn’t that will be respected? Please try to answer without reference to the last referendum. We all know that result and the lies upon which it was predicated. There were lies on both sides. People lie. Politicians lie. We as voters know that. Cameron used our money to leaflet every single home in the UK with his scaremongering. Leave never had such an opportunity. You have no idea whether things have changed, and your use of the word 'if' demonstrates that: 'if things have changed and the will of the people has changed, shouldn't that will be respected?' We had a referendum, Cameron told us it was binding and there would be no going back. The said booklet was disguised as a 'Guide to Brexit' but in reality, it used our money in a crass attempt to scare the voters in to voting for the devil they knew, co-incidentally, this was Cameron's view. The majority voted to leave. Some of the minority are not happy with that and are using any means possible to try and de-rail Brexit, and disenfranchise the majority. Some of the minority accept the result and want us to get on with it. The booklet didn't say, 'we'll have a re-run in a couple of years time, if the electorate don't vote the way I want them to'. ---------- Post added 27-09-2018 at 18:19 ---------- Accept that the decision to have another referendum isn't the EU's to make. It would be a British decision, inspired by an increasing demand from the British people, that is called democracy. Weird concept, I know, following the people's will, at least we have staunch socialists like yourselves who are prepared to fight the right to democracy. When did we hear that before in history? Prove this. ---------- Post added 27-09-2018 at 18:24 ---------- There are plenty of "leave" voters who now realise that they were hoodwinked and misled and wish a second vote. .....Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Prove this. ---------- Post added 27-09-2018 at 18:24 ---------- .....Prove it. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-referendum-millions-leave-voters-best-for-britain-no-deal-theresa-may-conservative-government-a8521346.html https://www.research-live.com/article/features/are-people-changing-their-minds-about-brexit/id/5043382 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cats Hat Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 We had a referendum, Cameron told us it was binding and there would be no going back. Who cares what Cameron told us? The European Union Referendum Act 2015 did not make it binding and that is all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Who cares what Cameron told us? The European Union Referendum Act 2015 did not make it binding and that is all that matters. But the 2017 EU Withdrawal Act did make it binding the UK would leave the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 But Acts have been amended before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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