Top Cats Hat Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 But the 2017 EU Withdrawal Act did make it binding the UK would leave the EU. That is government legislation, not Cameron's promises, and all legislation can be repealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthor Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Not to mention that 2 million older leave voters are now dead and 2 million newly eligible 18 - 20 year olds didn't get a chance to vote. Based on that logic, we should hold General Elections and have a Brexit Referendum every two years then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 There were lies on both sides. People lie. Politicians lie. We as voters know that. Cameron used our money to leaflet every single home in the UK with his scaremongering. Leave never had such an opportunity. You have no idea whether things have changed, and your use of the word 'if' demonstrates that: 'if things have changed and the will of the people has changed, shouldn't that will be respected?' We had a referendum, Cameron told us it was binding and there would be no going back. The said booklet was disguised as a 'Guide to Brexit' but in reality, it used our money in a crass attempt to scare the voters in to voting for the devil they knew, co-incidentally, this was Cameron's view. The majority voted to leave. Some of the minority are not happy with that and are using any means possible to try and de-rail Brexit, and disenfranchise the majority. Some of the minority accept the result and want us to get on with it. The booklet didn't say, 'we'll have a re-run in a couple of years time, if the electorate don't vote the way I want them to'. ---------- Post added 27-09-2018 at 18:19 ---------- Prove this. ---------- Post added 27-09-2018 at 18:24 ---------- .....Prove it. It would appear to be more like reality than scaremongering.. ---------- Post added 27-09-2018 at 20:07 ---------- Based on that logic, we should hold General Elections and have a Brexit Referendum every two years then. How about a referendum every 5 yerars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 That is government legislation, not Cameron's promises, and all legislation can be repealed. It was legislation passed by Parliament after Cameron resigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 It was legislation passed by Parliament after Cameron resigned. It can be amended/got rid of... nothing is carved in stone...that's democracy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cats Hat Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Based on that logic, we should hold General Elections and have a Brexit Referendum every two years then. That makes no sense. Age has an influence on a whole range of policy promises of a general election manifesto, whereas in a binary choice such as 'in' or 'out' of the EU, we know that about 85% of young people would vote remain and about 85% of old people would vote leave. If the referendum were held today and NOBODY changed their mind and only people who voted last time voted again, the result would be 52% remain and 48% leave simply because about 1.5 million old people have died since June 2016 and have been replaced by approximately 1.5 million 18 and 19 year olds, who were too young to vote in 2016. If you assume that two thirds of those people a) voted and b) voted in line with their age group, that means about a million more votes for remain which cancels out the one million vote advantage that leave had in 2016, and replace it with one million remain voters, hence flipping the 48/52 result to a 52/48 one.* So a 'frozen in time' re run of the referendum with the only change being old people dying and young people becoming eligible to vote, Vote Leave could not win without at least a 5% swing to leave. That is why the Brexiteers are so desperate for there to be no second referendum as it is unwinnable in 2018 without a significant swing to leave, when in fact there is actually a swing to remain. (*and please let's not start a bunfight about the actual figures. They are only approximate but the underlying trends are accurate.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthor Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-referendum-millions-leave-voters-best-for-britain-no-deal-theresa-may-conservative-government-a8521346.html All that tells me is that a company contracted to provide data for a pro-eu campaign has presented this data, in a pro-eu newspaper that is gathering signatures for a pro-eu campaign. So much for independence! ---------- Post added 28-09-2018 at 01:58 ---------- https://www.research-live.com/article/features/are-people-changing-their-minds-about-brexit/id/5043382 I'm afraid recent worldwide political shifts have rendered surveys and polls dead in the water. The warning at the end is noted though: when it comes to voting, young people don't tend to turn out. So, no proof up to now. ---------- Post added 28-09-2018 at 02:13 ---------- That makes no sense. Age has an influence on a whole range of policy promises of a general election manifesto, whereas in a binary choice such as 'in' or 'out' of the EU, we know that about 85% of young people would vote remain and about 85% of old people would vote leave. If the referendum were held today and NOBODY changed their mind and only people who voted last time voted again, the result would be 52% remain and 48% leave simply because about 1.5 million old people have died since June 2016 and have been replaced by approximately 1.5 million 18 and 19 year olds, who were too young to vote in 2016. If you assume that two thirds of those people a) voted and b) voted in line with their age group, that means about a million more votes for remain which cancels out the one million vote advantage that leave had in 2016, and replace it with one million remain voters, hence flipping the 48/52 result to a 52/48 one.* So a 'frozen in time' re run of the referendum with the only change being old people dying and young people becoming eligible to vote, Vote Leave could not win without at least a 5% swing to leave. That is why the Brexiteers are so desperate for there to be no second referendum as it is unwinnable in 2018 without a significant swing to leave, when in fact there is actually a swing to remain. (*and please let's not start a bunfight about the actual figures. They are only approximate but the underlying trends are accurate.) You have no idea what underlying trends are.- Only what unreliable data, usually compiled on behalf of organisations with an axe to grind provides you with. You have no idea who voted for what in terms of demographics, only in terms of geography. No one has. Even the idea that the young are mainly remainers and the old are mainly leavers is entirely supposition. There is no proof. It does not exist. Now that IS the Emperor's new clothes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 The campaign for a second referendum is a front for big business to reverse the democratic decision of over 17 million voters to leave the EU. It is a grubby little campaign that stains democracy as the result of the June 2016 People's Vote has not yet been implemented or even respected. I'm certainly glad that you recognise it was sovereign elected British governments that introduced legislation for paid holidays, women's suffrage, the creation of the NHS and various equality acts in the UK - some Remainers on here have claimed that it was the neoliberal EU that brought them about! Democracy was stained by Heath when he took the UK in, FCO folder 30/1048 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Well, it looks like Boris has finally got of his arse and put a plan together - Canada plus. Tariff free, but it doesn't sort the Irish border problem out and it leaves key industries exposed. The Tory faithful will like it, the eu will probably go for it, but is it sensible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 The campaign for a second referendum is a front for big business to reverse the democratic decision of over 17 million voters to leave the EU. It is a grubby little campaign that stains democracy as the result of the June 2016 People's Vote has not yet been implemented or even respected. I'm certainly glad that you recognise it was sovereign elected British governments that introduced legislation for paid holidays, women's suffrage, the creation of the NHS and various equality acts in the UK - some Remainers on here have claimed that it was the neoliberal EU that brought them about! Nope,there's still time to step back from the edge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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