L00b Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) Why would I? <non-sequitur snipped>Because, by your own words, you favour further regionalisation over further centralisation. We can also -or alternatively- consider your sovereignty argument under the light of the government-acquired emergency legislating powers. For instance. If required, primer in simple enough terms in this very interesting article. Edited October 10, 2018 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodview Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Even with PR they can't represent all their constituents, they could do half at best. Look at brexit. Half the country is happy, half really really aren't. Correct, but again, which is best - all the representatives being uk elected or 9% ? The same problems exist with either, but with different proportions of represenatation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Correct, but again, which is best - all the representatives being uk elected or 9% ? The same problems exist with either, but with different proportions of represenatation. That's just nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodview Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Because, by your own words, you favour further regionalisation over further centralisation. We can also -or alternatively- consider your sovereignty argument under the light of the government-acquired emergency legislating powers. For instance. If required, primer in simple enough terms in this very interesting article. Scotland and Wales both currently have regional assemblies. They can have referndums to leave the Uk if they wish, that's their democratic right. They did that and narrowly stayed, even BEFORE the EU referendum. You may support a large central government, potentially encompassing additional countries e.g Turkey. I personally don't like the concept. ---------- Post added 10-10-2018 at 14:16 ---------- That's just nonsense. Why is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) Scotland and Wales both currently have regional assemblies. They can have referndums to leave the Uk if they wish, that's their democratic right. They can’t without (central) Parliament’s say-so. So much for their ‘democratic right’ to self-determination. They did that and narrowly stayed, even BEFORE the EU referendum. You may support a large central government, potentially encompassing additional countries e.g Turkey. I personally don't like the concept. Ah, the old Turkey-joining-the-EU angle, Project Leave’s very own ‘Project Fear’. Shoe-horned into whattaboutery, no less. A for style and effort. But an F for content I’m afraid. I don’t particularly care for the form and size of government. So long as it is functional, respectful of its constitutional boundaries, and benevolent on balance. And I understand the principle, and particularly the geopolitical and social advantages, of pooled aspects of sovereignty. Unlike very many it seems. Edited October 10, 2018 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 .................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodview Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 They can’t without (central) Parliament’s say-so. So much for their ‘democratic right’ to self-determination. Ah, the old Turkey-joining-the-EU angle, Project Leave’s very own ‘Project Fear’. Shoe-horned into whattaboutery, no less. A for style and effort. But an F for content I’m afraid. If they get enough support for a referndum, then they will have to be allowed one, as last time. The comment was more of my opinion, that if they want to have one they can. You just seem to be arguing for the sake of it. They had a referendum before the EU referndum, you are making it cause and effect, when it isn't. They may well have another even if we stay, how does that fit in? I didn't reference any fear angle, only that an expanding EU exaggerates my concerns with it, i.e the exact topic we were discussing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 If they get enough support for a referndum, then they will have to be allowed one, as last time. The comment was more of my opinion, that if they want to have one they can. You just seem to be arguing for the sake of it. They had a referendum before the EU referndum, you are making it cause and effect, when it isn't. They may well have another even if we stay, how does that fit in? I didn't reference any fear angle, only that an expanding EU exaggerates my concerns with it, i.e the exact topic we were discussing An expanding EU gives us a bigger internal market to sell into...far less complicated than having to neotiate with lots of entities.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodview Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 An expanding EU gives us a bigger internal market to sell into...far less complicated than having to neotiate with lots of entities.. Well you can also sell to those other countries anyway, I sell to lots of non-EU countries hassle-free, but I get your drift. Yes, it gives the seamless borders you allude to, that is an advantage. each person has to balance the pros and cons for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Well you can also sell to those other countries anyway, I sell to lots of non-EU countries hassle-free, but I get your drift. Yes, it gives the seamless borders you allude to, that is an advantage. each person has to balance the pros and cons for themselves. It isn't hassle free, there's more paperwork for starters - let alone the need for "donations" in certain countries. Not so the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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