woodview Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 So you know, for an absolute fact, that when the UK, as the junior partner in a trade deal with India we won't end up with a huge amount of Indian graduates heading our way going for ANY job? Look who is driving the bus. If Davis gets in, that's exactly what will happen. Now it might be dressed up differently but that's going to be the end result. Your opinion over trade deals means precisely nowt. You voted to leave the EU. What happens next is nothing to do with you and me Nobody knows what a future trade deal with unknown countries will entail. As part of the EU, we have deals with Canada and Japan, but they didn't involve free movement or a free-for-all on visas. Also, interestingly from 'our' perspective the Japan deal was just announced as a done deal. It will have took years in the making. Where was our say on it? It includes goods and produce. So don't we have an issue with japanese fishing/whaling anymore? I do. I'd like a situation where british politcal parties stand up and win or lose elections with things such as this as part of their manifesto, rather than it just being delegated to the boys who know best in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Nobody knows what a future trade deal with unknown countries will entail. As part of the EU, we have deals with Canada and Japan, but they didn't involve free movement or a free-for-all on visas. Also, interestingly from 'our' perspective the Japan deal was just announced as a done deal. It will have took years in the making. Where was our say on it? It includes goods and produce. So don't we have an issue with japanese fishing/whaling anymore? I do. I'd like a situation where british politcal parties stand up and win or lose elections with things such as this as part of their manifesto, rather than it just being delegated to the boys who know best in the EU. Look at who is in charge, who is likely to be in charge come trade negotiating time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobinfoot Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Thanks for demonstrating my point The referendum outcome could, and still can (...just), be implemented in any number of ways, ranging between EEA-Norway (acceptable to fair chunk of 48%ers) and ‘no deal’ (acceptable to fraction of 52%ers), without undermining its democratic mandate. A preference for ‘this’ model or ‘that’ model on the scale, is only a matter of personal opinion, and irrelevant in democratic terms, until and unless such models are put through a vote (further ref, or GE manifesto). But holding just one model on the scale to be ‘the’ model decided by the referendum, without any form of consideration for the balance of 52%ers, for the 48%ers nor for the rest of the non-voting country, that’s simply authoritarian. And given the stridence of the othering, I’ll push that boat out as far as ‘fascistic’. Thankfully, there is no statistical evidence whatsoever, that there is any preference for a particular exit model amongst the Leave voters: they are far more fragmented about how to Brexit, relative to the 48%. Whereby, in a hypothetical further referendum about how to leave, with a remain option, remain would swing it for that fundamental reason plus a couple more (age pyramid attrition; cumulative information). the vote was to leave the EU. It would be preferable to reach a mutually acceptable deal which the EU says is 95% done already and I'm sure the remaining 5% is achievable also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 the vote was to leave the EU.Well, that’s an appeal to the baseline binarism of the 2016 ref, and so an appeal to simplification: on that metric, exiting EU membership for associate ‘EEA’ membership is ‘leaving the EU’. If you disagree, then we’re back to semantics and the relevance of the ‘range’ of possible exits, from EEA to ‘no deal’. It would be preferable to reach a mutually acceptable deal which the EU says is 95% done already and I'm sure the remaining 5% is achievable also.The breaking news from insiders is that the DUP will back the Tory eurosceptics’ amendment on Wednesday, making the NI backstop illegal. So much for that £1bn bung of taxpayers’ money. So long as the DUP remain in their kingmaker role, you ain’t getting in sight of the finish (-with deal) line. Tic-toc-tic-toc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodview Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Look at who is in charge, who is likely to be in charge come trade negotiating time. Vote for a party that negotiates what you want, with trade partners you want then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 The breaking news from insiders is that the DUP will back the Tory eurosceptics’ amendment on Wednesday, making the NI backstop illegal. So much for that £1bn bung of taxpayers’ money. So long as the DUP remain in their kingmaker role, you ain’t getting in sight of the finish (-with deal) line. Tic-toc-tic-toc... The DUP are the only UK political party, who have representation in Parliament who officially campaigned for the whole of the UK to leave the EU. The DUP are fighting for both the wishes of Northern Ireland people who vote for them in elections and the whole of the people in the UK, who voted to leave the EU. The backstop which the EU want, would effectively keep Northern Ireland in the EU while the rest of the UK wouldn't be in the EU. A political party who campaigned for the whole of the UK to leave the EU and were on the winning side of the referendum result are hardly likely to support a backstop , which would mean that their own region would be the only UK region, that remained in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Vote for a party that negotiates what you want, with trade partners you want then. So I agree with labours negotiating position on a US trade deal, the tories on a Japanese trade deal and the lib dems on an India trade deal, and that's assuming they even know their starting position (labour and the tories don't have consensus on ONE deal yet) and also assume that Donald trump doesn't say our way or nothing. Multiply that situation by as many countries as you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cats Hat Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 But did the brexit voters vote leave because of that. We also were kept being told that it was because of xenophobia as well which also does not wash. (with me that is) Whether it washes with you or not, polls of leave voters' reasons for voting that way rank as follows. 1. Immigration. 41% 2. Sovereignty. 30% 3. Money paid to the EU. 15% (Good to here you are recovering well!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Reasons are interesting, I agree; but it's the vote's outcome that counts. Let it be implemented. There's no solution to at least some of the electorate being disgruntled by the deal that's reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Reasons are interesting, I agree; but it's the vote's outcome that counts. Let it be implemented. There's no solution to at least some of the electorate being disgruntled by the deal that's reached. I would imagine any agreement would disgruntle most of the electorate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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