woodview Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said: It’s a more informed choice, and therefore more democratic Er, yes it can. A50 can be withdrawn at any time That's true, we now know about Cameron and Osbornes trickery. Why call it a different name though? It's just another referendum. Or we could call it Indyref2..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 56 minutes ago, apelike said: No it cant as the ECJ has yet to rule on whether it can be unilaterally withdrawn, until then it stands.. Not true. It is designed to be withdrawable before final agreement is made. Lord Kerr who authored it has confirmed that. 55 minutes ago, woodview said: That's true, we now know about Cameron and Osbornes trickery. Why call it a different name though? It's just another referendum. Or we could call it Indyref2..... Keep going. Your mask is gradually slipping. If MPs can’t decide then the people should, either in a GE or a referendum if necessary. Only this time we will be more wise to those who are trying to subvert our democracy through lies and misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said: Not true. It is designed to be withdrawable before final agreement is made. Lord Kerr who authored it has confirmed that. Lord Kerr may have been its author but didnt do a very good job. Nowhere in the agreement does it state anything about a member unilaterally withdrawing from it once it has been enacted and that is why the ECJ has yet to rule on it, and I think most sane people know that. It is a very loosely written piece of legislation and because it says nothing about withdrawing from it has to go to the ECJ for a ruling, and as in any legal case the devil is in the details which this does not have. I think anyone who thinks otherwise is just having a last grab at straws that do not exist, including its author. Edited November 24, 2018 by apelike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, apelike said: Lord Kerr may have been its author but didnt do a very good job. Nowhere in the agreement does it state anything about a member unilaterally withdrawing from it once it has been enacted and that is why the ECJ has yet to rule on it, and I think most sane people know that. It is a very loosely written piece of legislation and because it says nothing about withdrawing from it has to go to the ECJ for a ruling, and as in any legal case the devil is in the details which this does not have. I think anyone who thinks otherwise is just having a last grab at straws that do not exist, including its author. So let’s imagine you are right, do you seriously believe the ECJ is going to reject withdrawal of A50? You are seriously clinging on by the fingertips here. But even if we do leave on Mays deal, by the end of transition on 2022 or possibly much later we will have the softest of Brexits. Hard Brexit is dead. Time to get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said: So let’s imagine you are right, do you seriously believe the ECJ is going to reject withdrawal of A50? Its a fairly simple legal principle, the ECJ is a court and will make a legal judgement on what the legality of withdrawing under A50 is. As nothing is in writing regarding withdrawal and as the EU have already confirmed there is no legal basis for any unilateral withdrawal the ECJ will only make a decision on that and that alone. BTW they can only reject a withdrawal (if thats the case) if the UK first want one. Quote Hard Brexit is dead. Time to get over it. I dont need to get over it as the deal has not yet been agreed on or voted on by our Parliament. As stated in the past I just voted but its Parliament who has the last say and not me and I will accept whatever happens. Edited November 24, 2018 by apelike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penistone999 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Sounds like May has surrendered to the Spanish over Gibraltar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, apelike said: Its a fairly simple legal principle, the ECJ is a court and will make a legal judgement on what the legality of withdrawing under A50 is. As nothing is in writing regarding withdrawal and as the EU have already confirmed there is no legal basis for any unilateral withdrawal the ECJ will only make a decision on that and that alone. BTW they can only reject a withdrawal (if thats the case) if the UK first want one. I dont need to get over it as the deal has not yet been agreed on or voted on by our Parliament. As stated in the past I just voted but its Parliament who has the last say and not me and I will accept whatever happens. Would you accept remaining in the EU? 2 minutes ago, Penistone999 said: Sounds like May has surrendered to the Spanish over Gibraltar. Yes they’ve been thrown under the bus. Precedent set. We will cave in over our own territorial red lines Falklands next. Every single South American country we try and do an FTA with is going to factor the Falklands in. They are all basically friends of Argentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penistone999 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Just on the news official confirmation from DUP that they will vote against May`s deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaci Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, Penistone999 said: Just on the news official confirmation from DUP that they will vote against May`s deal. Don't get on your soap box yet Penistone! looks like we're staying in after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 This isn’t Empire 2.0. Its the wanton destruction of The UKs standing in the world in the most abject and humiliating way possible. Brexit leaders should be ashamed of where this process has taken our country. There is time to repair the damage, even though what has already been done will take a decade or more fix. Lets get started with putting our country back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts