woodview Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 34 minutes ago, apelike said: Why would the troubles return because of a hard border? Sorry but I just dont understand the logic. It is inflammatory. I support Brexit, But a hard border in Ireland is going to cause trouble. Republicans want a united Ireland, so erection of a border, is a hard symbol that that area is British. There is always the option to in any instance to not erect a hard border. The Irish government would then face the choice of erecting one or not. It's on the same lines that the no-deal port jams only affect the UK. The problem would be the same on the other side of the channel. It's not suitable scenario for either the EU or the UK, but it is only being used as an Apocalypse scenario in the UK, principally by our own government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 1 hour ago, apelike said: Why would the troubles return because of a hard border? Sorry but I just dont understand the logic. those who advocate violence have not gone away, the political advances since the agreement have kept them largely quiescent. to those elements and others within the republican community the return of a hard border will look like a repudiation of the whole agreement and will most likely be presented as such by their recruiters. a return to violence by some republicans is going to bring back the unionist terrorists and the whole situation is going to pretty quickly spiral out of control. a political solution is going to be hard to achieve since the perception will be that british government has chosen to break the agreement, so you're looking at remilitarisation fairly quickly. terrorists tend to copy each others tactics and the modern trend is for high casualty soft targets so I imagine that they will quickly get to this point and also move onto the mainland. the only way to avoid violence may be to start talks on reunification as soon as a hard border becomes inevitable, and offer resettlement to those who really don't want to stay, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPEN BORDERS Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 More trouble in France for the 4th consecutive week. Protests in Belgium and Holland aswell. Italy, Poland, Hungary - all had enough of being dictated too by the EU. Germany, Austria voting towards Right wing parties And yet still people want to remain in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Gee Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, OPEN BORDERS said: More trouble in France for the 4th consecutive week. Protests in Belgium and Holland aswell. Italy, Poland, Hungary - all had enough of being dictated too by the EU. Germany, Austria voting towards Right wing parties And yet still people want to remain in the EU. You'll be loving that then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, OPEN BORDERS said: More trouble in France for the 4th consecutive week. Protests in Belgium and Holland aswell. Italy, Poland, Hungary - all had enough of being dictated too by the EU. Germany, Austria voting towards Right wing parties And yet still people want to remain in the EU. We have asked many times what is the benefit of Brexit. Whilst you have not exactly made an argument,your comments are illuminating,and explain much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPEN BORDERS Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, Mister Gee said: You'll be loving that then? More interested in this country to be honest. But have OPEN BORDERS - invite in any Tom, Dick or Harry and things will go wrong (and they are doing) Hence voters turning to the right. The EU is doomed. The sooner we get out with a clean break, the better we will be as a country. 4 minutes ago, RJRB said: We have asked many times what is the benefit of Brexit. Whilst you have not exactly made an argument,your comments are illuminating,and explain much. The EU is being run by very dangerous people. We should get out of their project pronto. We have a mandate to get out, 17.4M gave that snippet of advice to our Politicians. They should have the courage to leave with a No Deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 1 hour ago, andyofborg said: those who advocate violence have not gone away, the political advances since the agreement have kept them largely quiescent. to those elements and others within the republican community the return of a hard border will look like a repudiation of the whole agreement and will most likely be presented as such by their recruiters. a return to violence by some republicans is going to bring back the unionist terrorists and the whole situation is going to pretty quickly spiral out of control. a political solution is going to be hard to achieve since the perception will be that british government has chosen to break the agreement, so you're looking at remilitarisation fairly quickly. terrorists tend to copy each others tactics and the modern trend is for high casualty soft targets so I imagine that they will quickly get to this point and also move onto the mainland. the only way to avoid violence may be to start talks on reunification as soon as a hard border becomes inevitable, and offer resettlement to those who really don't want to stay, Exactly - I still mourn Jo Cox and what she represented. The Brexiteers seem to be set on Brexit by whatever means possible, even if it results in violence. With such a narrow majority of the voters, and indeed a minority of the population, backing their stance, now we know what is on the table - the government should go back to the people and ask - is this what you asked for? And, as David Davies said, they should have the chance to change their minds, otherwise democracy does not exists in the United Kingdom. Anyone who can argue against this is a traitor to democracy and backs right-wing thinking and totalitarianism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Gee Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, OPEN BORDERS said: More interested in this country to be honest. But have OPEN BORDERS - invite in any Tom, Dick or Harry and things will go wrong (and they are doing) Hence voters turning to the right. The EU is doomed. The sooner we get out with a clean break, the better we will be as a country. The EU is being run by very dangerous people. We should get out of their project pronto. We have a mandate to get out, 17.4M gave that snippet of advice to our Politicians. They should have the courage to leave with a No Deal. You'll use problems in other countries if it suits your agenda though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, OPEN BORDERS said: More trouble in France for the 4th consecutive week. Protests in Belgium and Holland aswell. Italy, Poland, Hungary - all had enough of being dictated too by the EU. Germany, Austria voting towards Right wing parties And yet still people want to remain in the EU. The cause of the trouble in France is nothing to do with the EU. Poland and Hungary seem to have had enough of democracy and the rule of law and are going back to dictarorships. Whether they will leave the EU is another matter, since their only real alternative is being under Putin's boot again. Italy signed up the the Euro and if they don't follow the rules then they will suffer the consequences. They could always leave the Euro and go back to the Lira, but the consequences of that are likely to be severe. Edited December 8, 2018 by andyofborg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPEN BORDERS Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mister Gee said: You'll use problems in other countries if it suits your agenda though? What ? The problems caused 'in other countries' have being caused by the EU ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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