Why has religion retained its appeal?

[SnailyBoy]

No. I don't believe it's an entity. I believe it's the final stage of life. But you've given me the impression that you believe your death won't occur far many years yet since you're relatively young and quite healthy, which suggests you believe age and health dictate life expectancy, whereas I believe death can occur at any time regardless of age or health. I'm not saying 'say your last goodbye's to everyone just in case you kipper-it in the next half hour', I'm just curious about this belief/notion of yours.

 

Statistically age, sex, location, wealth, lifestyle are all indicators of life expectancy. The whole business of life insurance runs off it.

 

Telling me that death can occur at any age is stating the obvious, everyone knows that.

 

I'm not sure what you think my belief/notion is?

[Cyclone]

A starting hypothesis? Are you aware that there's a starting hypothesis in the Bible too.

 

Based on the reference you've given, I'll l assume you share my belief of dark matter existsing. Seeing as I'm unable to define or prove the existence of the "something" I believe in, let's turn our attention to our shared belief in dark matter. That's assuming you believe it exists obviously. Personally, I'm not entirely sure why I believe it exists, I just do. What about you? Why do you believe it exists?

 

A hypothesis is a potential explanation for something observable. It's testable, and falsifiable, and typically what a scientist does is try to falsify it, ie prove it wrong through experimentation.

The bible doesn't contain hypotheses. In fact it goes to lengths to discourage any attempts to test it's explanations.

[danot]

You defined faith as 'believing in something we can't prove or even define'

 

I have reason to believe that'll I'll wake up based on the 18250 times it's happened before, but that isn't faith'

 

I more interested why people believe something they can't even define what it is they believe. It seems bizarre to me.

 

Statistically age, sex, location, wealth, lifestyle are all indicators of life expectancy. The whole business of life insurance runs off it.

 

Telling me that death can occur at any age is stating the obvious, everyone knows that.

 

I'm not sure what you think my belief/notion is?

My Bold: This?

[SnailyBoy]

My Bold: This?

 

Yep, it's a reasonable belief/expectation based on previous experience.

 

Is that seriously your point of debate for all this?

[Cyclone]

"That's what the people say"...

 

Seriously. What supports your belief of you not dying tomorrow? Someone is bound to die tomorrow, so what makes you so certain it wont be you?

 

I'll admit it's becoming a little grim but I'm really interested in understanding this death defying belief of yours.

 

Is this all just a desperate attempt to catch someone in a belief that isn't supported by evidence? (possibly driven by the conflation of evidence with proof that RootsBooster noted earlier).

[danot]

A hypothesis is a potential explanation for something observable. It's testable, and falsifiable, and typically what a scientist does is try to falsify it, ie prove it wrong through experimentation.

The bible doesn't contain hypotheses. In fact it goes to lengths to discourage any attempts to test it's explanations.

 

I accept that Cyclone. However, dark matter isn't testable or even observable.

 

 

But lets not drift off topic again.

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2018 at 10:47 ----------

 

Yep, it's a reasonable belief/expectation based on previous experience.

 

Is that seriously your point of debate for all this?

 

Yes. The previous 18250 times you've woken-up has no baring on your chances of waking up tomorrow. I'm curious as to why you believe they do.

[SnailyBoy]

Yes. The previous 18250 times you've woken-up has no baring on your chances of waking up tomorrow. I'm curious as to why you believe they do.

 

It's a reasonable expectation that I'll wake up tomorrow.

 

My phone has turned on every morning for the last 6 months. I've got a reasonable expectation that'll it turn on tomorrow, based on previous experience.

 

My car starts every time I want to use it. I've got a reasonable expectation it'll start today, based on previous experience.

 

Do you see now?

[danot]

Is this all just a desperate attempt to catch someone in a belief that isn't supported by evidence? (possibly driven by the conflation of evidence with proof that RootsBooster noted earlier).

 

I'm just interested in why he believes what he does. There's no scientific reason to support his belief. There's no logical reason to support his belief.

 

would you agree?

[Cyclone]

I accept that Cyclone. However, dark matter isn't testable or even observable.

The hypothesis is though. Through the predicted gravitational influence for example.

 

 

But lets not drift off topic again.

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2018 at 10:47 ----------

 

 

Yes. The previous 18250 times you've woken-up has no baring on your chances of waking up tomorrow. I'm curious as to why you believe they do.

 

If you want to talk about the chances it would be easier to look at the chances of not waking up. Unless there's some evidence to suggest a likelihood of dying overnight then it's perfectly reasonable to believe that you won't.

Statistically speaking the chance of a healthy middle aged male dying in their sleep with no known medical or physical reason for it is very low. There's basically no evidence to support a hypotheses of dying overnight. There's plenty of evidence to support a hypotheses of waking up again, starting with the statistical, but also including a wealth of physical health evidence, much of which is available to our senses in an unquantified way through the absence of feeling ill.

 

I'll ask again if this is just an attempt to catch a purportedly rational poster in a belief that you can point at as being faith and not evidence lead?

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2018 at 11:02 ----------

 

I'm just interested in why he believes what he does. There's no scientific reason to support his belief. There's no logical reason to support his belief.

 

would you agree?

 

No, I wouldn't agree in the slightest. There are strong logical and evidence lead reasons for his belief.

[danot]

It's a reasonable expectation that I'll wake up tomorrow.

 

My phone has turned on every morning for the last 6 months. I've got a reasonable expectation that'll it turn on tomorrow, based on previous experience.

 

My car starts every time I want to use it. I've got a reasonable expectation it'll start today, based on previous experience.

 

Do you see now?

 

Have you considered unforeseen outside influences? God forbid (pardon the expression). Is it also reasonable to expect that you wont be affected by an unforeseen outside influence tomorrow based on the previous 18250 times you've experienced?

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2018 at 11:28 ----------

 

The hypothesis is though. Through the predicted gravitational influence for example.

 

If you want to talk about the chances it would be easier to look at the chances of not waking up. Unless there's some evidence to suggest a likelihood of dying overnight then it's perfectly reasonable to believe that you won't.

Statistically speaking the chance of a healthy middle aged male dying in their sleep with no known medical or physical reason for it is very low. There's basically no evidence to support a hypotheses of dying overnight. There's plenty of evidence to support a hypotheses of waking up again, starting with the statistical, but also including a wealth of physical health evidence, much of which is available to our senses in an unquantified way through the absence of feeling ill.

 

I'll ask again if this is just an attempt to catch a purportedly rational poster in a belief that you can point at as being faith and not evidence lead?

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2018 at 11:02 ----------

 

 

No, I wouldn't agree in the slightest. There are strong logical and evidence lead reasons for his belief.

 

I fully believe that Snailboys expectation of waking up tomorrow is to a certain degree "faith lead" as the past 18250 days he's experienced have no baring on his chances of surviving today. It's glum outlook on life I know but that's how life is. it's always on the balance. Although, from a medical point of view, I agree with both of you whole heartedly.

Edited July 29, 2018 by danot