Why has religion retained its appeal?

[RootsBooster]

It is not easy to describe what consciousness is in words because these words are confined, they have a limit. You can't describe something limitless with words that stick to a meaning.

This is just a forum and I am not writing a book about my experiences. But will try again, just having my coffee. Consciousness is everywhere and everything, go to stanage edge it is there and the rocks are in it part of it. A tree is in it part of it. The ocean is in it part of it. You are in it part of it. Conscious is all and the material is only a part of it. Everything material has a border, edge, birth, death. Although consciousness is not material, it can be seen and observed when we do become aware of it and find the connection. Its taken me years to find this connection but really it could happen instantly under certain circumstances it doesn't need to take years. It could happen instantly this moment.

Cyclone you again asked what it is. It is your centre, who you are, it is seeing watching all your thoughts your dreams, emotions. You are still unaware of it but there must have been small glimpses in your life where you have been in short contact with consciousness.

By the way when meditation reaches its peak success and failure disappear you just feel love and blissfulness.

 

In the above quote, you've said that consciousness is a bunch of material stuff (or rather, all material stuff in existence), then you said consciousness is not material.

Then you (very vaguely) said it's our 'centre' and it's a bunch of emotions and such...

 

 

You've just described a void. Do you really think that's an accurate description of consciousness?

Yes.

 

But there are different people who interpret or use that word differently, I am trying to use this word to point to this void.

There have been others who called it super consciousness but I don't like to use that word. Some people call it awareness, awareness and consciousness are closely related. I use the word awareness to point to the possible awakening of the unconscious mind to become aware and connect and see consciousness again.

In the above quote, you said that consciousness is a void.

 

I haven't seen someone wriggle this much since Smiffy used to corner himself in arguments!

 

An atheist and theist are both religious.

One beliefs religion the other rejects it, they are just the positive and negative of the same religious battery.

Neither understands the meaning of religion therefore they struggle with its meaning and tension builds up. Religious people can be very tense, one little spark and they can start a war.

Is that the meaning of religion, being confused, not understanding believing in stupid scriptures or rejecting them completely as an atheist?

Becoming aware of these unconscious religions and seeing they are all thoughts, believes, dreams. This seeing happens by moving out of their confined mind and putting it to rest allowing the real meaning of what some of these scriptures try to say to be seen again. When that happens you move beyond religion and can say "I am god, I am all, I am the universe" like jesus and others have done but you better don't say it, he got crucified for saying that.

Oh here we go.

What exactly is religious about somebody rejecting religion?

[dutch]

RootsBooster. An atheist is religious. Take away religion and he cannot be an atheist. Bring back religion and he can be an atheist again. He is not free.

[RootsBooster]

RootsBooster. An atheist is religious. Take away religion and he cannot be an atheist. Bring back religion and he can be an atheist again. He is not free.

 

Ah, I see now!

 

If we take away bicycles, people who do not cycle can no longer not cycle. Bring back bicycles and they can not cycle again. They are not free!

So a non-cyclist is a cyclist.

Edited August 7, 2018 by RootsBooster

[Robin-H]

RootsBooster. An atheist is religious. Take away religion and he cannot be an atheist. Bring back religion and he can be an atheist again. He is not free.

 

You know that makes no logical sense at all right? You’re joking?

 

By that ‘logic’ (if I can call it logic) you could say that religious people are atheists. Take away atheism and he cannot be religious. Bring back atheism and he can be religious again. He is not free.

[TimmyR]

"Why" what?

 

exactly that yes.

[dutch]

Ah, I see now!

 

If we take away bicycles, people who do not cycle can no longer not cycle. Bring back bicycles and they can not cycle again. They are not free!

So a non-cyclist is a cyclist.

 

That's right. No bicycles and no one can cycle or not cycle.

Bring them back and you can choose again.

I don't choose for either side and have no attachment with bicycles. Just like I have no attachment to my mind.

[SnailyBoy]

That's right. No bicycles and no one can cycle or not cycle.

Bring them back and you can choose again.

I don't choose for either side and have no attachment with bicycles. Just like I have no attachment to my mind.

 

I'm not an astronaut, do I need a space craft?

 

Edit to add.

 

As atheism is the rejection of the claim that a god/gods exists. I suppose that if no-one claimed that a god/gods exists, then there'd be no rejection of the claim, therefore there wouldn't be any atheists.

 

I don't know how that makes atheism religious.

Edited August 7, 2018 by SnailyBoy

[Robin-H]

That's right. No bicycles and no one can cycle or not cycle.

Bring them back and you can choose again.

I don't choose for either side and have no attachment with bicycles. Just like I have no attachment to my mind.

 

So you are saying a non cyclist is a cyclist?

 

Now that’s a bit silly isn’t it. Words have meanings.

[dutch]

So you are saying a non cyclist is a cyclist?

 

Now that’s a bit silly isn’t it. Words have meanings.

 

There is attachment, the non cyclist says there is a bicycle but I refuse to get on it.

When that attachment is gone that person is neither a cyclist or non cyclist. They can then cycle or walk without identifying with the bicycle, it is a greater freedom than the cyclist who can't walk or the non cyclist who can't cycle. Any form of attachment to religion takes the freedom away. Rejection is also a form of attachment.

Edit, it may be a negative attachment but if I force you to believe in God you will be clearly attached to the issue.

Edited August 7, 2018 by dutch

[danot]

You know that makes no logical sense at all right? You’re joking?

 

By that ‘logic’ (if I can call it logic) you could say that religious people are atheists. Take away atheism and he cannot be religious. Bring back atheism and he can be religious again. He is not free.

 

I think dutch is right in the sense of atheism and religion being co dependant on each other. You can't identify with being atheist without religion being relevant to your position. I suppose it could be argued that babies can be atheists without religion being relevant to their position but the truth is, they don't really have a position do they since they have no concept of either religion or atheism.

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2018 at 16:36 ----------

 

You've just described a void. Do you really think that's an accurate description of consciousness?

 

If I knew what consciousness was I'd probably be in a better position to tell you how accurate or inaccurate dutch's description is.