Why has religion retained its appeal?

[danot]

The only point I was making was that you don't have a point and that you and logic have at best only a passing acquaintance.

 

The reason you CAN'T ask what was before time is because 'before' is a function of being within time.

 

---------- Post added 13-08-2018 at 07:19 ----------

 

 

I did ignore him, I replied to you. We don't necessarily agree on everything.

 

How can something be prior to time, you literally make no sense.

 

Ah, yes. Your critical eye always has been selective hasn't it?

[Robin-H]

Krauss doesn't know anything about it, his books on this is nothing more than theoretical ideas.

 

Robin, you seem to be in conflict with yourself. A cause could only accur if something existed prior to time and space, there is no other explanation. And if you believe nothing existed before time and space and by 'nothing' I mean absolutely nothing at all, then you're effectively ruling out a cause.

 

Nobody 'knows' anything about the subject in a concrete sense, it is all just theories at this stage. Dismissing one of the world's leading theoretical physicist and cosmologist because his books are about theoretical ideas is a bit stupid. I'm not saying he is absolutely correct, but it's a damn good place to start to begin to get a more rounded understanding on the subject.

 

That's because you believe that something cannot come from nothing. Not everyone believes that. Alternatively, I could be completely wrong about the universe having a cause, I said that was my belief, not that that was something that I knew. Unlike religious 'beliefs' this is based on existing knowledge, the fact that every other thing in existence can be taken back to its 'cause' or origin, and so it would follow the same would be held for the one thing for which we can't do that yet. That may be wrong.

[danot]

Nobody 'knows' anything about the subject in a concrete sense, it is all just theories at this stage. Dismissing one of the world's leading theoretical physicist and cosmologist because his books are about theoretical ideas is a bit stupid. I'm not saying he is absolutely correct, but it's a damn good place to start to begin to get a more rounded understanding on the subject.

 

That's because you believe that something cannot come from nothing. Not everyone believes that. Alternatively, I could be completely wrong about the universe having a cause, I said that was my belief, not that that was something that I knew. Unlike religious 'beliefs' this is based on existing knowledge, the fact that every other thing in existence can be taken back to its 'cause' or origin, and so it would follow the same would be held for the one thing for which we can't do that yet. That may be wrong.

 

Actually, krauss does believe that something can come from nothing. That's the premise of his theory.

[Robin-H]

Actually, krauss does believe that something can come from nothing. That's the premise of his theory.

 

Yes I know..that’s why I said not everyone believes that it isnt possible for something to come from nothing. Also, it depends on what you mean ’nothing’ - if you read Krauss you might disagree with what he means by nothing (opens can of worms)

[danot]

Yes I know..that’s why I said not everyone believes that it isnt possible for something to come from nothing. Also, it depends on what you mean ’nothing’ - if you read Krauss you might disagree with what he means by nothing (opens can of worms)

 

You mean the nothing that isn't nothing but actually something that he passes-off as nothing to avoid the problem of having to explain where the something came from? Okay then...

[dutch]

Religion could be a discovery of transformation and the unknown within. Simply believing or putting the (A) in front of theism is not going to do that.

In order to discover this what is deep at your centre within it is needed to go further. Not in some organised believing religion but by using your own insight and intelligence. When I say intelligence I don't mean "intellect", that intellect is for scholars who study everything on the surface without experiencing the beautiful moments of reaching somewhere deep within seeing the beauty and feeling the bliss of it. God or Jesus or allah are gone long by and are not going to get you there.

Existing religions keep telling people they are at the mercy of god and these people feel they cant go further being at his mercy control. Dropping religion is not really make you free from that mercy. You are still one with the universe, not some separated intellectual upset consciousness thinking that by dropping the religious control spiritual freedom is found. On the contrary, people have become more stressful, worried, concerned. No deep relaxation understanding, insight, health has come from putting that (A) in front of your religion. This is largely because most people don't understand what religion is. They think you have to either embrace it like some monk or throw it away like a logical scientist. Nobody sees or realises that they keep pasting their identity on this vision without seeing it clearly, clean silently unpolluted the way it is. When that happens religion is understood and the individual who thought they were religious or areligious becomes aware of this consciousness again and understand feels and sees what religion was talking about. Without joining or believing in any ridiculous religious clubs. People on this forum will tell me that's not real or possible, they can go back to their church or keep rejecting them. It wont make any difference to me just like it made no difference to others like myself who have found this secret. Everyone could see that only if they want to but most people are too scared to go beyond their minds and see what is really real behind all these ongoing thought preventing them from seeing and experience existence free from the worries stress and depression that mind creates.

[Robin-H]

You mean the nothing that isn't nothing but actually something that he passes-off as nothing to avoid the problem of having to explain where the something came from? Okay then...

 

You can hear him talk about it here. It’s only a couple of minutes long.

 

[danot]

You can hear him talk about it here. It’s only a couple of minutes long.

 

 

I saw the seminar he gave in which Darwkin introduced him. 'A universe from nothing'. It's a very imaginative example of what the cause might be.

[Cyclone]

Ah, yes. Your critical eye always has been selective hasn't it?

 

And your ability to avoid awkward suggestions is almost legendary.

[danot]

And your ability to avoid awkward suggestions is almost legendary.

 

Legendary? I never realised that you held me in such high regard. It's not often that I blush but, oowh, Cyclone, you've brought on that warm, fuzzy feeling. And I like it.