Living beyond our means, or just poverty?

[hackey lad]

Always putting links to the daily newspapers and then on another thread saying the daily newspapers are biased and cant be trusted

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2018 at 18:56 ----------

 

I know a lot of nurses and on average they earn between £25,000-32,000 and to my knowledge non have ever used a food bank.

 

I was being sarcastic . Think it was last year when Doctors/Nurses were in dispute with the government , stories appeared about nurses using foodbanks . Labour jumped on the bandwagon ,saying something like " what sort of country have we become when our brilliant nurses are having to live on handouts from foodbanks "

[Anna B]

No. That's not what I asked you.

 

STOP with the cherry picking.

 

What was the daily mail article you have taken the figures from as stated in your post #45 less than a hour ago?

 

 

Front page Daily Mail, Friday July 27th 2018.

 

2" Headline: 'Living beyond our Means' Byline: 'Families are spending more than they earn for first time since 1988.'

Continued on page 2. Followed by editorial comment on page 16.

[ECCOnoob]

Thank you. 3 pages in and we finally have the source.

 

This one then..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5995205/Households-spent-900-earned-2017.html

[Anna B]

Always putting links to the daily newspapers and then on another thread saying the daily newspapers are biased and cant be trusted [color="Silver""

 

Which is why I put a link on to the ONS website and the report I believe it came from...

[lottiecass]

You wouldn't be living of £100pw. It's what is left after you've taken care of the essentials. What part of a disposable income don't you understand?

 

I do understand,you apparently do not!

[Obelix]

This article Anna B??

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5810455/Number-people-living-poverty-line-UK-maybe-half-thought-official-figures-show.html

 

The one whose headline states ..."Office for National Statistics report casts doubt on the extent of poverty..."

 

The one that concludes with the following quote:

 

Yesterday academic and researcher into the family Patricia Morgan said: ‘A large number of people are working unofficially and are unlikely to declare their incomes. There are many single mothers who are in fact supported by partners, but will be reluctant to discuss it because they wish to keep their benefits.

 

‘All this is ignored by the poverty lobby. Spreading the idea there are very high levels of poverty is their business.'

 

Why didn't you set that important detail out in your OP. Would have been pretty helpful to give some context to the thread.

 

A cherry picked report? I kind of expected it to be misrepresented since the definition for disposable income has been mistaken with discretionary income...

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2018 at 22:48 ----------

 

Thank you. 3 pages in and we finally have the source.

 

This one then..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5995205/Households-spent-900-earned-2017.html

 

So it's not an ONS report at all then is it... it's some hack piece from that oh so reliable "source" known as the Daily Wail...

[cgksheff]

A cherry picked report? I kind of expected it to be misrepresented since the definition for disposable income has been mistaken with discretionary income...

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2018 at 22:48 ----------

 

 

So it's not an ONS report at all then is it... it's some hack piece from that oh so reliable "source" known as the Daily Wail...

 

Have you read the article?

Have you not seen that it is based on this:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/uksectoraccounts/articles/makingendsmeetarehouseholdslivingbeyondtheirmeans/2018-07-26

[Cyclone]

Try this.

 

On the front page it states 'In the financial year ending 2017the average income of the richest fifth of households before taxes and benefits, was £88,000 per year, 12 times greater than that of the poorest fifth, £7,400.'

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth

 

And further into that report

 

Taking account of cash benefits that households received and direct taxes paid resulted in an increase in the income for the poorest fifth of households by £6,000 – to £13,400 - and a decrease in the income of the richest fifth of £18,000 – to £70,700. Consequently, the ratio of income of the richest fifth to the poorest fifth falls from twelve to one, to five to one. The inclusion of indirect taxes (for example, alcohol duties, Value Added Tax (VAT) and so on) and benefits-in-kind (for example, education, National Health Service) further reduces this ratio to less than four to one.

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2018 at 07:33 ----------

 

Certainly not the norm across the nursing industry though?

 

Nobody claimed it was the norm though.

However, now you can 'imagine' it, so that's an improvement on your understanding.

[Vaati]

Post(s) have been removed because they could be considered to breach our Terms of Service or Forum Rules.

[the_bloke]

An Office of National Statistics report showed that the top 10% of earners had a disposable income - after taxes and housing costs - of £78,000 last year. These families spent less than £39,000 of that sum.

 

By contrast,the poorest 10% of households had a disposable income of just £5,000 but spent £13,000 funded by borrowing and debt.

 

Saving has fallen to the lowest level since records began in 1963.

 

Peter Andrew of charity step change said 'The reality is too many households simply cannot make ends meet no matter how hard they try.

Not having enough money to make ends meet is not the same as living beyond your means, which implies you have a choice, when too many people do not.'

 

A typical household's outgoings were £900 higher than their incomings last year,

 

Are we living in a fool's paradise? Are we heading for yet another financial crisis? Shouldn't something be done?

 

Are you referring to this?

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2017

 

It contains the following summary:

 

"Households have more disposable income than at any time previously. However, compared with their pre-downturn levels the incomes of the poorest households have risen nearly two thousand pounds but the incomes of the richest are only now slightly higher. Overall, income inequality has slowly fallen over the last decade."

 

How have you to come to your conclusion?

 

Edit: I see it, I just didn't read through the whole thread.

 

So on one hand the ONS are saying income equality is falling, disposal income is at it's highest ever but the bottom 10% of earners are spending beyond their means.

 

Your report linked earlier in the thread also casts doubt on the accuracy of the incomes in the bottom 10% as it includes all students (who live on loans mostly) and points out that certain benefits are excluded from the income figures of that bottom 10%

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2018 at 16:22 ----------

 

The news is that the poorest are at their worst off since 1988. I will give you an explanation that you don't like Anna: Brexit.

 

Chickens coming home to roost, no sympathy except for those that voted to Remain.

 

If that's the case, why is the borrowing pattern in the UK the same as the USA? The data from the ONS shows a virtual parallel in borrowing patterns since 1997.

Edited July 30, 2018 by the_bloke