ez8004 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 It’s not a red herring at all. There’s a very clear reason for it. ---------- Post added 03-09-2018 at 23:04 ---------- Even the SLC describe the loans as debt. The +3% isn’t intended to cover unrecovered capital, or even death of borrowers. In time the debt owed will balloon to approaching a trillion pounds. Now who would be interested in a loan book like that? Like if the government decided to sell it? Answer is that the system is monetised to support future private sales of parcels of the loan book. That’s the other major aspect of this scam - the goalposts can shift. Do you still not understand that the student's repayments are NO WHERE near is bad as it seems? Still think a £60k loan requires a repayment of £140k? The goalposts CANNOT retrospectively shift. The terms and conditions of the loan you take out at the time you take it out is constant throughout the duration of the loan. There is precedence in this when the SLC created Plan 2 to supercede Plan 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Do you still not understand that the student's repayments are NO WHERE near is bad as it seems? Still think a £60k loan requires a repayment of £140k? The goalposts CANNOT retrospectively shift. The terms and conditions of the loan you take out at the time you take it out is constant throughout the duration of the loan. There is precedence in this when the SLC created Plan 2 to supercede Plan 1. I understand totally. I already described as a very preferential form of debt with repayments structured like a tax. It is still debt. And, check your SLC contract. Finally, as I said earlier stop defending this rotten system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil752 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 I understand totally. I already described as a very preferential form of debt with repayments structured like a tax. It is still debt. And, check your SLC contract. Finally, as I said earlier stop defending this rotten system but why are universities selling courses that can not be paid back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) It shows nothing of the kind. Thats nothing to do with rent arrears being up. Do you honestly think people will just swallow stuff you spout without checking it and o you think we are that daft to not spot this sort of thing? See my post #70... ---------- Post added 04-09-2018 at 00:35 ---------- Yes, it is still and debt. And people shouldn't forget, with this government the rules change and the goalposts move all the time. Who's to say that 10 years down the line the government won't decide to hike up interest rates or that the unpaid debt won't be written off after 20 years after all, etc. Who brought tuition fees in? Edited September 3, 2018 by truman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil752 Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) See my post #70... ---------- Post added 04-09-2018 at 00:35 ---------- Who brought tuition loans in? who do you think Edited September 4, 2018 by phil752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Do you still not understand that the student's repayments are NO WHERE near is bad as it seems? Still think a £60k loan requires a repayment of £140k? The goalposts CANNOT retrospectively shift. The terms and conditions of the loan you take out at the time you take it out is constant throughout the duration of the loan. There is precedence in this when the SLC created Plan 2 to supercede Plan 1. Actually I think they've got form already for changing the terms retrospectively. In any other loan arrangement that wouldn't be possible. ---------- Post added 04-09-2018 at 07:38 ---------- Look on Money Saving Expert. Do you want the link. Lays out the reality. I'm looking on it right now. Did you put in a starting salary of 45k? Did you fail to read this? "Remember, this is based on your salary increasing to £194,490 by the time your debts clear (in 30 years)." That's highly unlikely isn't it, but if they are on such a high salary then that repayment won't be too onerous. Even if I change salary growth to 0, it applies RPI to the salary apparently. "Remember, this is based on your salary increasing to £109,230 by the time your debts clear (in 30 years)." It's probably better to ignore the effects of inflation I'd have thought for calculation purposes on both salary and loan. If I set RPI to 0 and salary increase (true increase now) to 1% then the very lucky graduate who starts on 45k is earning "Remember, this is based on your salary increasing to £60,660 by the time your debts clear (in 30 years)." Probably a bit conservative given the huge starting salary, but hey. This results in them paying off £73500 over 30 years. £2450 on average a year (£204/month), against a career average salary of £52830 gross. Which is a net income of £3200/month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 but why are universities selling courses that can not be paid back? Because it is the primary way of getting fees income from UK students. They don’t really have a choice. ---------- Post added 04-09-2018 at 08:03 ---------- Actually I think they've got form already for changing the terms retrospectively. In any other loan arrangement that wouldn't be possible. ---------- Post added 04-09-2018 at 07:38 ---------- I'm looking on it right now. Did you put in a starting salary of 45k? Did you fail to read this? "Remember, this is based on your salary increasing to £194,490 by the time your debts clear (in 30 years)." That's highly unlikely isn't it, but if they are on such a high salary then that repayment won't be too onerous. Even if I change salary growth to 0, it applies RPI to the salary apparently. "Remember, this is based on your salary increasing to £109,230 by the time your debts clear (in 30 years)." It's probably better to ignore the effects of inflation I'd have thought for calculation purposes on both salary and loan. If I set RPI to 0 and salary increase (true increase now) to 1% then the very lucky graduate who starts on 45k is earning "Remember, this is based on your salary increasing to £60,660 by the time your debts clear (in 30 years)." Probably a bit conservative given the huge starting salary, but hey. This results in them paying off £73500 over 30 years. £2450 on average a year (£204/month), against a career average salary of £52830 gross. Which is a net income of £3200/month. As you said earlier, just make it a tax. There is no need for a student loan to be tied to a debt vehicle. Apart from of course the monetisation of the debt and the opportunity to parcel up parts of the loan book for sale to private third parties, with variance of the terms possible at any time. The psychological impact of these debts on ex-students is very real. And some elements of the system are highly intrusive, for example having to apply suspend payments if you leave the country for an extended period. And of course the existence of a fines regimen, use of debt collection agencies etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin-H Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Because it is the primary way of getting fees income from UK students. They don’t really have a choice. ---------- Post added 04-09-2018 at 08:03 ---------- As you said earlier, just make it a tax. There is no need for a student loan to be tied to a debt vehicle. Apart from of course the monetisation of the debt and the opportunity to parcel up parts of the loan book for sale to private third parties, with variance of the terms possible at any time. The psychological impact of these debts on ex-students is very real. And some elements of the system are highly intrusive, for example having to apply suspend payments if you leave the country for an extended period. And of course the existence of a fines regimen, use of debt collection agencies etc... Apologies if this has already been answered, but how do you see the tax working for overseas students? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 with variance of the terms possible at any time. How is it variable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Apologies if this has already been answered, but how do you see the tax working for overseas students? Non-EU International students generally pay their fees as they go, by whatever means. They are not eligible for the loans. EU students on the other hand are eligible. There are obviously longer term questions about that continued eligibility after Brexit, but it would be wrong to impose on U.K. students a flawed system in order to cover what is after all a small proportion of students. Brexit is I think you’d argue about doing what is right for U.K. citizens? ---------- Post added 04-09-2018 at 09:18 ---------- How is it variable? The contract allows for terms to be changed - and that has happened before. There is nothing that sets the terms in stone for the whole period of the agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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