New Debt Crisis

[truman]

Hang on- didnt Obelix just say

 

"Growth is on its way up, unemployment at very low values, wages are finally starting to perk up, we still have low interest and inflation is not going too badly..."

 

All this while we're still in the EU.. how will leaving improve it?

[Obelix]

Hang on- didnt Obelix just say

 

"Growth is on its way up, unemployment at very low values, wages are finally starting to perk up, we still have low interest and inflation is not going too badly..."

 

Have we left the EU yet? Did I say we'd left? Please stop cherry picking my comments in this fashion.

[spilldig]

Interesting (and disturbing) programme on TV last night about household debt. ('Tonight' 7.30 ITV)

 

This was not about people spending money on things they could do without like holidays and luxuries, but being in debt with everyday household bills.

 

£19 Billion owed on basic utilities, mortgage/rent arrears, essential bills; average £58,000 debt per household; every household spending £900 more than it earns.

 

8,000,000 households struggling to cover basic costs. The 'just about managing' are no longer are managing at all, they are sinking fast, and this group is engulfing more and more people. Food bank use growing, and many of these are the working poor.

 

Employment might be up according to the government, but for many, working does not end poverty, it exacerbates it.

 

As far as I can see everyone seems to have plenty of money. All the roads are chock full of cars, every concert booked solid weeks in advance, restaurants so packed you have to make reservations, airports packed with people going on holiday, people queing up for lottery tickets and scratch cards, and spending a fortune down at Bramall Lane and Hillsborough, etc, etc.

[Cyclone]

Must be nice in your bubble.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/04/uk-government-warned-over-sharp-rise-children-pensioner-poverty-study

[truman]

Must be nice in your bubble.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/04/uk-government-warned-over-sharp-rise-children-pensioner-poverty-study

 

I don't think any of what spilldig said is untrue..you must have seen it yourself..according to your link the JRF definition of poverty is someone who earns less than 60% of median earnings..so that's someone on about 17k these days..addmittedly not everyone is able to afford all those things but there's still a lot of people with enough spare cash to do it..

[alchresearch]

Didn't we find and discuss flaws in that Rowntree "poverty" survey from 2017?

[Cyclone]

I don't think any of what spilldig said is untrue

So you think it's true that.

everyone seems to have plenty of money.

I don't.

 

I think many people do, but to claim that everyone does is ludicrous.

 

I don't like the 60% definition of poverty, but it's a fact that food bank usage under tory austerity has risen from 10's of thousands to millions! And this isn't a case of people using them because they're available, they have to be referred by an agency.

[truman]

So you think it's true that.

 

I don't.

 

I think many people do, but to claim that everyone does is ludicrous.

 

I don't like the 60% definition of poverty, but it's a fact that food bank usage under tory austerity has risen from 10's of thousands to millions! And this isn't a case of people using them because they're available, they have to be referred by an agency.

 

You need to read the bit where I said "Admittedly not everyone is able to afford all those things"

[ECCOnoob]

Didn't we find and discuss flaws in that Rowntree "poverty" survey from 2017?

 

We did. At great length including JRF's very dubious definition of "poverty" and their fag packet mathematics on what THEY deem to be some minimum income level that everyone should demand.

 

However, it never stops the regulars on there beating that same old drum.

 

Round and round it goes. JRF publish some report, the papers snip out the jucy bits and publish those and then is trickles down to this forum where posters snip out the headline figures only and state it as fact to suit their agenda.

 

YES. Some people are struggling more than others. YES. Some people earn little whilst others earn a lot..... but "POVERTY". I am not convinced.

 

Spilldig's earlier comment is absolutely valid. Take a look around at what the majority of the population are doing. Even the so called lowest earners.

 

Take a look around your average shopping mall or superstore on a weekend. They are not all high rollers with their gucci store cards and jimmy choos.

 

Take a look around your sports stadia, cinemas, restaurants, pubs and clubs. They are not all balllers popping the champagne corks.

 

Look at the traffic. Look at the trains. All packed with people going about their day.

 

Someone is putting money in the tills and its not all about those nasty disgusting evil "rich" people.

 

Said before and will say again. People need to pull their head out and take a look what real poverty is. This country is nowhere close. With the extreme exceptions of the phyically and mentally disabled through no fault of their own, nobody has a right to scream the word "poverty". Those to do need to take a long hard look at thieir own failures.

 

We have an NHS. We have a minimum wage set in law. We have a universal welfare benefits system for all citizens. We have statutory instruments to provide a bed to sleep in and a roof over someone's head for the night even if they are at their most desprate state.

 

Countries around the world (including some of the richest and most westernised) could only dream of that level of assistance.

[sheffbag]

I'd say he was trying to make the point that terms and conditions were changed after the contracts were signed and in action. In a way that in a commercial contract would be impossible and/or fraudulent.

 

A point he'd already made and which was being disputed but which the link rather conclusively proves is correct.

 

No, virtually all of his points have been about calling it a debt despite being shown that it isn't one. So i was asking how does he see it and what is his answer to funding university education.