New Debt Crisis

[Cyclone]

It's not as low as it has been but to be honest if the overall standard of living is higher than it was in the 1970's is that really such a problem? If we have an unequal sharing of wealth but that still brings us in way above the more equal sharing of not very much in the 1970's then is equality a goat worth sacrificing?

 

So we have had greater equality in the past...

 

Attempts to justify inequality with "we're all better off" don't really fly. At least not if you're considering equality and inequality for the social impact that has. People don't care that 50 years ago their grandparents couldn't have dreamt of the flat screen TV, mobile phone, always on internet and 100's of TV channels. That's irrelevant to the level of perceived inequality today.

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2018 at 10:56 ----------

 

Of which any outstanding after 30 years is wiped off so any interest or outstanding amount is neither here or there.

 

So you get asked simple questions and do not answer any of them? I never said it was a tax. Its taken out of your pay check in the form of a tax but in turn it is no different then taking out a pension contribution.

 

Its not a willingness to accept debt, i'd love my daughter to come out with no loan payments after getting a degree but who should pay for her voluntary education that she has chosen to do? If I go and do a course to better my knowledge or for professional reasons then i pay for it myself. If i cant afford it then i either seek assistance or i dont do it.

 

As someone who cannot pay for it in her instance then the government enables the higher education but expects to receive some form of payment back for it. Whats wrong with that? If we didn't have this assistance then she wouldnt be able to afford university and all the additional fees of living that come with it and you would have a situation where only the wealthy could afford to go.

 

So whats your answer, how do we break this corrupt and unfair system?

 

I may not agree with Anna B on her views (what rate of tax would you set Anna?) but at least she offers a solution that we can debate and have a rational over, instead of not responding to simple questions to offer your views.

 

Create a graduate tax. Easy.

 

Set a 25k allowance, but anyone (not just students starting next year) earning over 25k who has a degree pays 5% tax on the amount they earn over that threshold.

Unlikely to happen as that would be MPs passing a law to tax themselves more, and they're all very keen on lining their own nest.

[sheffbag]

No problem with that, considering that that would be lower than what they are currently paying i could go with that. Does it double to 10% if they have 2 degrees?

 

At least that is an alternative offered for discussion

[Obelix]

If you have a graduate tax then that hardly seems fair on those that paid for their degree themselves though. They had the ability to pay, didn't burden the public purse but still are going to be taxed for it? Hardly acceptable.

[truman]

 

So you do think that what he said is untrue... You seem to have contradicted yourself by saying the opposite to him, but also saying you don't think he's incorrect.

 

Depends how pedantic you want to be....

[Robin-H]

So we have had greater equality in the past...

 

Attempts to justify inequality with "we're all better off" don't really fly. At least not if you're considering equality and inequality for the social impact that has. People don't care that 50 years ago their grandparents couldn't have dreamt of the flat screen TV, mobile phone, always on internet and 100's of TV channels. That's irrelevant to the level of perceived inequality today.

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2018 at 10:56 ----------

 

 

Create a graduate tax. Easy.

 

Set a 25k allowance, but anyone (not just students starting next year) earning over 25k who has a degree pays 5% tax on the amount they earn over that threshold.

Unlikely to happen as that would be MPs passing a law to tax themselves more, and they're all very keen on lining their own nest.

 

How do you prevent people from studying in the UK and then moving abroad and so getting their degree for nothing? Isn’t it just incentivising a brain drain?

[I1L2T3]

Of which any outstanding after 30 years is wiped off so any interest or outstanding amount is neither here or there.

 

So you get asked simple questions and do not answer any of them? I never said it was a tax. Its taken out of your pay check in the form of a tax but in turn it is no different then taking out a pension contribution.

 

Its not a willingness to accept debt, i'd love my daughter to come out with no loan payments after getting a degree but who should pay for her voluntary education that she has chosen to do? If I go and do a course to better my knowledge or for professional reasons then i pay for it myself. If i cant afford it then i either seek assistance or i dont do it.

 

As someone who cannot pay for it in her instance then the government enables the higher education but expects to receive some form of payment back for it. Whats wrong with that? If we didn't have this assistance then she wouldnt be able to afford university and all the additional fees of living that come with it and you would have a situation where only the wealthy could afford to go.

 

So whats your answer, how do we break this corrupt and unfair system?

 

I may not agree with Anna B on her views (what rate of tax would you set Anna?) but at least she offers a solution that we can debate and have a rational over, instead of not responding to simple questions to offer your views.

 

I’ve already said several times what I think the solution for U.K. students is: a graduate tax.

 

Obviously there would have to be a different system for non-UK students.

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2018 at 12:29 ----------

 

How do you prevent people from studying in the UK and then moving abroad and so getting their degree for nothing? Isn’t it just incentivising a brain drain?

 

We have systems in place for that now, although they need improving.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, it would be wrong to impose a flawed system on UK students just so it could facilitate international collections.

 

If I was a Brexiter I might start seeing this as an advantage of Brexit, as a way to introduce a preferential system for U.K. students without worrying about reciprocal arrangements too much

 

You might want to think things through a bit more. Just saying.

[Robin-H]

I’ve already said several times what I think the solution for U.K. students is: a graduate tax.

 

Obviously there would have to be a different system for non-UK students.

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2018 at 12:29 ----------

 

 

We have systems in place for that now, although they need improving.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, it would be wrong to impose a flawed system on UK students just so it could facilitate international collections.

 

If I was a Brexiter I might start seeing this as an advantage of Brexit, as a way to introduce a preferential system for U.K. students without worrying about reciprocal arrangements too much

 

You might want to think things through a bit more. Just saying.

 

I asked a civil and I think valid question, I’m not sure why it garnered that response. Strange. I did think it through thank you, which is why I asked the question.

[lil-minx92]

All this while we're still in the EU.. how will leaving improve it?

 

Nobody knows. Maybe it will, maybe it wont but we wont become a third world country because we leave the EU!

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2018 at 13:28 ----------

 

Have we left the EU yet?.

 

No not yet. Go back to sleep until March time

[Cyclone]

No problem with that, considering that that would be lower than what they are currently paying i could go with that. Does it double to 10% if they have 2 degrees?

 

At least that is an alternative offered for discussion

 

No reason it should go up for more degrees. I'm not sure that you can get student loans for a second degree anyway.

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2018 at 13:51 ----------

 

If you have a graduate tax then that hardly seems fair on those that paid for their degree themselves though. They had the ability to pay, didn't burden the public purse but still are going to be taxed for it? Hardly acceptable.

 

Don't ask/let anyone pay for it themselves.

There's another good reason to not allow that, in that doing so means that the poorer are disadvantages in access to the education, in that if they access it then they will have the burden of paying a loan/tax for it, whereas those who are lucky enough to come from a privilege of wealthy background don't have that downside and so are more likely to access the higher education available.

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2018 at 13:52 ----------

 

How do you prevent people from studying in the UK and then moving abroad and so getting their degree for nothing? Isn’t it just incentivising a brain drain?

 

No worse than the current system, you don't have to repay loans whilst working abroad.

You could also make the same argument about any taxation, isn't our PAYE taxation system just an incentive for people to move to Monaco or to work in Dubai?

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2018 at 13:54 ----------

 

Nobody knows. Maybe it will, maybe it wont but we wont become a third world country because we leave the EU!

 

We can already see the massive harm to our economy that it's doing though.

So pretending we "don't know" whether it will be harmful is naeve.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Cyclone

[Anna B]

I think we are at the most equal we have been for thirty years now. Gini is falling, has been falling and looks set to remain falling...

 

"As the bank of England has shown, for nearly 40 years, the share of our National income going into people's pay has been falling, while the share going into profits has been on the rise.

I do not believe we can continue with an economy which works so badly for so many."

Your words though, regardless of if you actually feel that way do paint a ratehr green tinged picture though I'm afraid

 

"It is an obvious injustice that income from work is taxed at a higher rate than income from capital gains or share dividends. The IPPR Commision proposes that all income is taxed on the same basis, just as it was under Mrs. Thatcher."

 

Theres that jealousy perhaps - yes more tax. Especially if it comes from those that have more than me. Much better.

Do you not consider that the substantially rich already pay a massive amount of tax and they might object? Something like 90% of the people in this country cost more than they pay in tax, that means that the top ten percent are carrying all the cost of the rest of us. Just something to consider.

 

"The IPPR Commission argues that we need to tax wealth more. Today the wealthiest 10% of households own more than 900 times the wealth of the poorest 10%, and 5 times more than the bottom half of all households combined."

The words of the Archbishop of Canterbury. He must be so jelous....