Climate Change thread

[Chekhov]

On 27/01/2023 at 20:32, Chekhov said:

The Times 23 Jan 2023 (p33)

Electric cars "not viable"
A mass market in affordable electric cars will not happen soon because of the difficulty of producing them on a commercially viable basis, one of the largest makers of zero emission vehicles for the UK has warned. Paul Philpott, UK Chief Executive of Kia said it had no immediate plans for a mass market electric product. Some fear there is a prospect of a society of haves and have nots in the electric car revolution because of the sheer cost of buying or financing  zero emission vehicles. Philpott's prediction also threatens to undermine the government's ban on the selling of petrol and diesel vehicles by 2030.

More along the same lines :

 

The Times 30 Jan 23 (p4)

An Autotrader report [has] warned that with supply ahead of demand, the used electric vehicle market needs urgent attention to address the imbalance.Demand for used electric vehicles has evaporated in recent months, primarily because of the fall in the cost of fuel and the rise in the cost of electricity.

The Green Alliance stated [they wanted to] put fairness into the heart of the electric vehicle roll out, the government must prioritise fixing patchy charging infrastructure, subsidising the cost of electric vehicles for lower income households, and making financing simpler and cheaper.

 

Right, so let's get this clear, the tax system will go from motorists paying in a shed load of tax to the government coffers, to the money  instead going out in subsidies.

 

Anyone got any ideas how that will pan out?

Where is all the money going to come from, esp since the government is in massive debt having spent £400 Billion trying (unsuccessfully) to suppress Covid ?

 

How many people on here think the ban on petrol and diesel vehicles in 2030 will occur relatively painlessly ?

Or if it will happen at all ?

Edited February 1, 2023 by Chekhov

[trastrick]

41 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

More along the same lines :

 

The Times 30 Jan 23 (p4)

An Autotrader report [has] warned that with supply ahead of demand, the used electric vehicle market needs urgent attention to address the imbalance.Demand for used electric vehicles has evaporated in recent months, primarily because of the fall in the cost of fuel and the rise in the cost of electricity.

The Green Alliance stated [they wanted to] put fairness into the heart of the electric vehicle roll out, the government must prioritise fixing patchy charging infrastructure, subsidising the cost of electric vehicles for lower income households, and making financing simpler and cheaper.

 

Right, so let's get this clear, the tax system will go from motorists paying in a shed load of tax to the government coffers, to the money  instead going out in subsidies.

 

Anyone got any ideas how that will pan out?

Where is all the money going to come from, esp since the government is in massive debt having spent £400 Billion trying (unsuccessfully) to suppress Covid ?

 

How many people on here think the ban on petrol and diesel vehicles in 2030 will occur relatively painlessly ?

Or if it will happen at all ?

What is a government promise to do something by 2030, 2050, 2100 worth?

 

They have to face the reality of election, every 4 years or so.

 

Some don't even last that long. 

 

And a new "reality" (crisis) is always popping up.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by trastrick

[Chekhov]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

What is a government promise to do something by 2030, 2050, 2100 worth?

They have to face the reality of election, every 4 years or so.

Some don't even last that long. 

And a new "reality" (crisis) is always popping up.

The thing is that all major parties have promised this "Nett Zero" by 2050, and banning petrol/diesel cars by 2030 (only 7 years away !).

I predict none of these targets will be met, but the negative effect on companies planning, esp in countries where the "promise" has been made, will have major repercussions on those countries car industries  

[trastrick]

I wouldn't worry about the "car industry".

 

The folks that follow the "fundamental change of society and the economy", crowd, leftist followers of Greta,  Al and Heinz-Kerry are confined, thankfully to the minority Western Socialist (and would be) States.

 

There'll always be a market for fossil fuel vehicles, and cheap energy in the rest of this big World.

 

There will not be EV Charging Stations popping up all over China, Russia, India, South America, Africa for a long time to come, if ever.

 

Food and manufactured goods will continue to be delivered from, to and within the developing World on a realistic market basis.

 

You can do your bit over there, though, if it makes you feel better! 

 

[El Cid]

The UK only car battery manufacturer, Volt, went bust last week.

Government help needed?

[trastrick]

Here's the latest data, from the NOAA/NASA 44 year satellite record.

 

 

Notes:

 

1. The raw database is found here:

http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/v6.0/tlt/uahncdc_lt_6.0.txt

 

2. "The National Space Science and Technology Center (NSSTC) in Huntsville, Alabama is a joint research venture between NASA and the seven research universities of the state of Alabama, represented by the Space Science and Technology Alliance. The aim of the NSSTC is to foster collaboration in research between government, academia, and industry. It consists of seven research centers: Space Science, Global Hydrology & Climate, Information Technology, Advanced Optics, Biotechnology, Material, and Propulsion. The west face of the building also houses the National Weather Service forecast office in Huntsville. Each center is managed by researchers from either Marshall Space Flight Center, the host NASA facility, or the University of Alabama in Huntsville (UAH), the host university. For UAH purposes, the building is known as Robert "Bud" Cramer Research Hall and houses the Atmospheric Science and Space Science programs". -WIKI

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2 hours ago, trastrick said:

Here's the latest data, from the NOAA/NASA 44 year satellite record.

interesting - thanks!

 

2 hours ago, trastrick said:

The raw database is found here:

you're spoiling me now!

...

 

so, a few minutes with a spreadsheet, and it seems global temperatures have risen around 0.35ish °C over the last 2 decades.

 

(average from 1990-2000 vs 2012-2022

 

(also matches the rate of temperature increase from climate.gov : 0.18°C per decade)

Edited February 2, 2023 by ads36

[trastrick]

1 hour ago, ads36 said:

interesting - thanks!

 

you're spoiling me now!

...

 

so, a few minutes with a spreadsheet, and it seems global temperatures have risen around 0.35ish °C over the last 2 decades.

 

(average from 1990-2000 vs 2012-2022

 

(also matches the rate of temperature increase from climate.gov : 0.18°C per decade)

Lol

 

The last two decades runs from 2003 to 2023, mate! 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by trastrick

[Annie Bynnol]

  

4 hours ago, trastrick said:

Here's the latest data, from the NOAA/NASA 44 year satellite record.

 

 

Notes:

1. The raw database is found here:

http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/v6.0/tlt/uahncdc_lt_6.0.txt

2. "The National Space Science and Technology Center (NSSTC) in Huntsville, Alabama is a joint research venture between NASA and the seven research universities of the state of Alabama, represented by the Space Science and Technology Alliance. The aim of the NSSTC is to foster collaboration in research between government, academia, and industry. It consists of seven research centers: Space Science, Global Hydrology & Climate, Information Technology, Advanced Optics, Biotechnology, Material, and Propulsion. The west face of the building also houses the National Weather Service forecast office in Huntsville. Each center is managed by researchers from either Marshall Space Flight Center, the host NASA facility, or the University of Alabama in Huntsville (UAH), the host university. For UAH purposes, the building is known as Robert "Bud" Cramer Research Hall and houses the Atmospheric Science and Space Science programs". -WIKI

•   Item one(the Graph above) that you provided shows a slow global rise in near surface air temperature.
•   Item two(the database) that you linked to shows a wide variation in the global rise in near surface air temperature.
•   Item three(the summary) that you linked to describes global trends and the extremes in regional rises in near surface air temperature.

     Your Source says that "Global climate trend since Dec. 1 1978: +0.13 C per decade". ('decade' refers to any 10 years as it describes the gradient of the graph and in this case describes a unit of time). These are Global air temperatures and as previously explained, Antarctica and the surrounding sea and air currents prevent its warming thus reducing the Global average rise.

     Now look at the graph you provided and the rises and falls- these are associated with the periodic El Niño/La Niña warm and cold sea currents which affect the air temperature above them as they spread North- the give a cyclical appearance to the graph but the trend is upward, selecting dates is therefore is in accurate and you must rely on the gradient of the graph which is since Dec. 1 1978: +0.13 C per decade, decade means any ten years.

     Now look at the Database you provided and the columns that refer to:

NH   Land Ocean  

       This is of course of course referring to the average air temperatures taken every 13 months since 1978 over Land and Ocean in the Northern Hemisphere. This data is seasonal but shows a more marked upward trend.

       Now look at the text in the summary provided and it describes in more detail the September/October/November 2022 situation which does mention some 'cold' and 'hot' extremes.

       You really do need to read the summaries that go with the data you select and you imagine fit your beliefs-which clearly do not.

.

       

 

     

 

       

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17 hours ago, trastrick said:

Lol

 

The last two decades runs from 2003 to 2023, mate! 

 

amazingly, we don't have data for 2023 yet