Climate Change thread

Chekhov · February 23, 2023

2 hours ago, Magilla said:

>>Magilla said : Clearly, that opportunity exists.... of course, the only people offering it are complete loons with no idea how anything works, so you take your chances. :?<<

>Chekhov said: Have you any idea how arrogant that sounds ?<

It isn't, they are loons.

So, you are saying anyone who opposes the "Nett Zero at any cost" dogma is 'a loon'.

Yet another, somewhat arrogant, parallel with Covid suppression.

People like me who were opposed to the latter all the way through received similar abuse (from those normally keen on virtue signalling their kindness and empathy), yet the evidence is stacking up we were right. One thing is for certain, the doom mongering experts were largely wrong.

RJRB · February 23, 2023

@Chekhov

“We were right.

They were wrong”

That just about sums up the extreme views arrived at on Forums when in fact there are numerous shades of opinion and nuances on topics including Coronavirus and Climate change.

Chekhov · February 23, 2023

Just now, RJRB said:

@Chekhov

“We were right.

They were wrong”

That just about sums up the extreme views arrived at on Forums when in fact there are numerous shades of opinion and nuances on topics including Coronavirus and Climate change.

I actually said :

yet the evidence is stacking up we were right. One thing is for certain, the doom mongering experts were largely wrong.

Whilst trying to avoid a Covid debate, it's largely irrelevant anyway because the Covid suppression strategy was not about the science, it was about 5 things :

1 - How the suppression policy affected people individually, some were hugely affected, but some not that much at all.
2 - People's risk aversion and their knowledge of risk probability.
3 - People's attitude to personal freedom, and, more significantly, to other people's personal freedom.
4 - People's attitude to the relative importance of length of life v quality of life.
5 - People's attitude to, and acceptance of, death.

Much of this could equally be about Nett Zero.

For instance, number 1people who fly infrequently or even not at all, will not be bothered if Nett Zero makes far more expensive.

Similarly number 2, people who are unbothered about the negative effects on others.

trastrick · February 23, 2023

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

It's not just in my head.

We have a load of "experts", most of whom (certainly those on the MSM and those listened to by the government) telling us how bad things could be (implication will be).

Exactly the same as what happened during Covid.

Scientists are by their very nature over cautious.

Exactly the same as what happened during Covid.

The scientists are not really that bothered about the effects of their recommended policies on the economy, and even less bothered about the effects on people's personal freedoms.

Exactly the same as what happened during Covid.

We have a government saying "we will be led by the science" so they can abdicate responsibility for making any serious decisions (even though the science is not certain, particularly as to the effects of rising CO2 concentrations).

Exactly the same as what happened during Covid.

We have all of the MSM talking like climate change is a certainty and that Nett Zero is required with the implied assumption it will work, They also imply that anyone who disagrees with it is an unthinking crank.

Exactly the same as what happened during Covid.

All major political parties have more or less the same policy on Nett Zero, there is no option to vote against it.

Exactly the same as what happened during Covid.

They, the government and the MSM as well as the scientists, more or less ignore the massive cost (social as well as financial) of their nett zero policy. It's a case of whatever it costs, it does not matter, we will do it : TINA (there is no alternative).

Exactly the same as what happened during Covid.

Post of the day!

For some, Doomsday is always just around the corner and if we can scare folk into giving up their freedoms, we can all make money!

And stay in political power forever!

Will they prevail?

Not as long as the West has Free Speech and democratic elections.

But they are working on that, starting in the schools.

“The State knows what’s best for you!”

Trust us!

Edited February 23, 2023 by trastrick

ads36 · February 23, 2023

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

So, you are saying anyone who opposes the "Nett Zero at any cost" dogma is 'a loon'.

Yes. they are loons, - because it doesn't exist. it's just another thing that they've invented - so they can pretend there is a conspiracy to control us.

if we wanted to reach net zero, at any cost, we could do that tomorrow*.

That we're actually aiming for 2050 (or whatever) shows that the goal is moderated by reality/pragmatism.

(*nevermind 'net zero', if we really wanted to, we could achieve 'true zero' - tomorrow)

Edited February 23, 2023 by ads36

Magilla · February 23, 2023

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

It's not just in my head.

Yes, it is.

Your list of assumptions that you have spectacularly failed to demonstrate over in the covid thread notwithstanding.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

Why is it arrogant ?

It's based on something you made up in your head, and cannot substantiate in any way other than your own personal opinion.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

Most of it is simply a statement of fact

As was my claim.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

So, you are saying anyone who opposes the "Nett Zero at any cost" dogma is 'a loon'.

I'm saying the only parties that are offering that option are full of loons.

Demonstrably so... but well done for spectacularly failing in comprehension...

...makes you wonder what else you've failed to comprehend!

ads36 · February 23, 2023

is there any sign yet that the conspiracy loons have heard about 'vision zero' ... ?

i'm sure they can't possibly misinterpret that as an assault on our freedoms...

Jeffrey Shaw · February 23, 2023

'Vision zero' suggests inability to see anything. Is that a deliberate usage?

Chekhov · February 23, 2023

2 hours ago, Magilla said:

Yes, it [any similarity between Nett Zero and the government's Covid strategy] is [just in Chekhov's head]

Really ?

So which of these is different ? And I mean on an individually argued basis :

We have a load of "experts", most of whom (certainly those on the MSM and those listened to by the government) telling us how bad things could be (implication will be).