El Cid Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 23 hours ago, Organgrinder said: Exactly what some of us predicted after the Tories poor election results. He's actually on the side of more votes. Its the same with imigration, dont solve the problem, make it seem worse than it actually is and use it to divide the electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trastrick Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 30/07/2023 at 05:33, Anna B said: The Tories are ruthless tricksters whose only concern is power at any cost. If they can hang on for another 12 months they will have set Labour up to fail. Trouble is you have to fight fire with fire but Labour does not play dirty so is always going to be at a disadvantage. Labour will have an awful lot to put right, and a lot of it will not be popular. Conservatives will promise the earth: (Levelling up?) but not deliver. Conservatives: for the few, not the many... Your faith in socialist politicians, is admirable, if not naive, Anna. As is your blanket dismissal of "tory", politicians, as somehow different from the rest. Labels, don't mean a thing, and elected politicians can't get elected unless they give the people what they demand. The UK, has no conservatives with any hope of being elected. They generally stick to running the wheels of industry, that bring you your goods and services from all over the World. They have REAL jobs. I'm a conservative and I believe in a Balanced Budget (Pay for what you spend, as you go, don't borrow from future generations, yet unborn, to pay your debts. so you can have YOURS, NOW!) Yep, it hurts, but that's life, because their is no Free Lunch, despite what they tell you! Means tests for government charity, supplements and benefits. (there is only so much money to go around) And don't be fooled into thinking that any elected politician, can turn around the huge Ship of State on a dime. Somebody smart wrote this about the (U.S.) government. But it applies to the U.K. and Canada, in my experience. I lost the attribution, unfortunately. "The over two million federal employees are your federal government, not Congress, the President or Courts. The Constitutional scheme of checks and balances has been overcome by bureaucratic power that controls the press, the masses and businesses. Billionaires have figured this out and thrown in with the controllers to further their fortunes. Freedom and Liberty are simply dreams, not reality." Your typical politician campaigns on raising money from donors, then when elected, spends time paying back his donors, then spends the rest of his term, consolidating and organizing his re-election But the bureaucrats (like the poor) are always with us! And it's they, who are really in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 29/07/2023 at 14:42, trastrick said: Greece Most fires in Greece were started 'by human hand ... The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com › world › jul › greece-fi... 16 hours ago — Official blames arsonists for the majority of 667 blazes that have spread in the extreme weather. Canada Man charged with arson in two Surrey fires Vancouver Sun https://vancouversun.com › news › local-news › man-... Jun 8, 2023 — On June 1, Paul Robinson was charged with two counts of arson for both incidents. He remains in custody until his next court appearance on June ... Mounties seek suspect in suspicious fires set along Hwy. 9 CTV News Calgary https://calgary.ctvnews.ca › mounties-seek-suspect-in-sus... Jun 14, 2023 — Authorities are looking for a suspect they say is responsible for setting at least six fires in ditches in Starland County, Alta. Police say wildfires on northern Vancouver Island may ... CBC https://www.cbc.ca › news › canada › british-columbia Jul 5, 2023 — Police on Vancouver Island say they are looking for suspects involved in lighting wildfires near the north Island community of Sayward. California The Esperanza Fire "The Esperanza Fire was a large, wind-driven, arson-caused wildfire that started on October 26, 2006, in a river wash near Cabazon, California, west of Palm Springs, California. By October 29, 2006, it had burned over 41,173 acres (166.62 km2) (or 61 square miles (160 km2)) and was 85% contained. Five firefighters died defending a vacant house locally known as the "Octagon" that was ultimately destroyed by the fire: Jason McKay, Jess McLean, Daniel Kurtis Najera, Mark Loutzenhiser and Pablo Cerda. In June 2009, Raymond Lee Oyler was sentenced to death for starting the fire. - Wiki Former Professor Is Indicted in 'Arson Spree' in California The New York Times https://www.nytimes.com › 2021/11/19 › california-wild... Aug 23, 2022 — Prosecutors say Gary Stephen Maynard set four fires this summer as one of the largest wildfires in California history raged nearby. California man who set 11 fires in national forest sentenced USA Today https://www.usatoday.com › nation › 2023/02/14 › cal... Feb 14, 2023 — Eric Michael Smith, 41, of Redding, California, was sentenced to two years and six months in prison for serial arson, Talbert said. Father and son arrested on suspicion of starting California ... The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com › us-news › dec › califo... Dec 9, 2021 — Pair accused of reckless arson in warrant over Caldor fire, which destroyed over 1000 homes and buildings. So the obvious conclusion is to ignore the possible reasons for drought and tinder dry vegetation ,and to make matches ,lighters and barbecues illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fools Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, RJRB said: So the obvious conclusion is to ignore the possible reasons for drought and tinder dry vegetation ,and to make matches ,lighters and barbecues illegal. how do you plan moving the Sun further away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cressida Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Once proven to be arsonists what should be the term of sentence - between 7 and 20 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, fools said: how do you plan moving the Sun further away Probably easier to move the earth using a really big lever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 They used to advise putting a brick in the toilet cistern to save water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_DADDY Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 minute ago, harvey19 said: They used to advise putting a brick in the toilet cistern to save water. I usually drop a brick in the bowl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, trastrick said: Your faith in socialist politicians, is admirable, if not naive, Anna. As is your blanket dismissal of "tory", politicians, as somehow different from the rest. Labels, don't mean a thing, and elected politicians can't get elected unless they give the people what they demand. The UK, has no conservatives with any hope of being elected. They generally stick to running the wheels of industry, that bring you your goods and services from all over the World. They have REAL jobs. I'm a conservative and I believe in a Balanced Budget (Pay for what you spend, as you go, don't borrow from future generations, yet unborn, to pay your debts. so you can have YOURS, NOW!) Yep, it hurts, but that's life, because their is no Free Lunch, despite what they tell you! Means tests for government charity, supplements and benefits. (there is only so much money to go around) And don't be fooled into thinking that any elected politician, can turn around the huge Ship of State on a dime. Somebody smart wrote this about the (U.S.) government. But it applies to the U.K. and Canada, in my experience. I lost the attribution, unfortunately. "The over two million federal employees are your federal government, not Congress, the President or Courts. The Constitutional scheme of checks and balances has been overcome by bureaucratic power that controls the press, the masses and businesses. Billionaires have figured this out and thrown in with the controllers to further their fortunes. Freedom and Liberty are simply dreams, not reality." Your typical politician campaigns on raising money from donors, then when elected, spends time paying back his donors, then spends the rest of his term, consolidating and organizing his re-election But the bureaucrats (like the poor) are always with us! And it's they, who are really in charge. I have very little faith in the current Labour party, and mostly agree with your post. I've been saying for some time that Democracy is now little more than a scam. All we are good for is paying taxes which are then spent by faceless bureaucrats on their pet projects which in no way reflects the wishes of the general public, but the personal agenda and benefit of said bureaucrats and politicians. My criticism of the current Tory party does not mean I automatically support the opposition who are much the same , but because it's the Tories who are in power, and doing the damage. I have no great hopes that Labour will do any better. IMO the last hope for meaningful change went with Jeremy Corbyn who genuinely wanted the best for the electorate and the country ('for the many not the few.') He was metaphorically assassinated for it. Edited August 1, 2023 by Anna B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trastrick Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 55 minutes ago, Anna B said: I have very little faith in the current Labour party, and mostly agree with your post. I've been saying for some time that Democracy is now little more than a scam. All we are good for is paying taxes which are then spent by faceless bureaucrats on their pet projects which in no way reflects the wishes of the general public, but the personal agenda and benefit of said bureaucrats and politicians. My criticism of the current Tory party does not mean I automatically support the opposition who are much the same , but because it's the Tories who are in power, and doing the damage. I have no great hopes that Labour will do any better. IMO the last hope for meaningful change went with Jeremy Corbyn who genuinely wanted the best for the electorate and the country ('for the many not the few.') He was metaphorically assassinated for it. I'm afraid there's no quick solution to the socialist malaise that has infected the U.K., Canada, and probably now the U.S. At least not in your or my lifetime, Anna. Generations have been indoctrinated with the idea that government is the giver of all good things that make life worth giving, and they have been elevated from "public servants" to public masters. They have solidly lodged themselves into a huge bureaucratic monopoly that controls all interactions between consumers like you and I, and the producers and suppliers of all goods and services that society needs, and demands. For this, it is estimated they are taking up to 80p of every dollar you and I earn, in taxes and fees of one kind or another. not to mention the hidden tax of inflation. Rather than oiling the wheels of industry, they are regulating every aspect of commerce, to ensure they get their ever increasing share of the GDP. But that's not enough! They need to borrow from generations unborn, for what they "must have" now, and anybody knows that you cannot continue to pile unstainable National Debts without having to face a day of reckoning. Nobody has a plan to deal with this inevitability, other than to keep on borrowing more, or to print more money, and hope you are out of office, before the crap hits the fan. There are always man made solutions to man made problems, but only if you are willing to adopt them. Some low hanging fruit that come to mind is the "universality" of government programs. Means Testing for all government grants, supplements and support. No free health care, daycare for the rich, unless you really believe a Tony Blair, or a Donald Trump needs a little help getting through life. Funnel government benefits only to the truly and demonstrated needy in society. No "humanitarian aid" that just goes to ensure that governments like North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan and other Middle East, South American, African countries, your enemies, can stay in power and spend their money on their military, weapons, nuclear projects. If the money you send to Pakistan every year in flood relief was earmarked for flood control, rather than their Nuclear Weapons programs, just imagine what benefits would accrue to to population, not the war lords. How much money was wasted on the COVID mitigation program disaster? How much more will be wasted on "climate change"? Does the government need public service unions? They are the most undemanding, unaccountable, most permanent and rewarding jobs in the World. $Multimillions' are spent on bonuses? Are Teachers Unions there for the children, or for themselves? What kind of product do they turn out? I dare say if you started looking at the government from a common sense point of view, the savings would jump out at you everywhere you looked. But nobody is interested in doing it. They are all happy at the trough! So it goes on. For a while. And as long as you continue to believe the government need to spend more money in this problem or that, you are part of the problem. Sometimes starving the beast is a more effective way of taming him! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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