Climate Change thread

[Guest]

1 hour ago, top4718 said:

Jeremy Corbyn wanted to pay people who do unskilled work the same rate of pay as tradesmen, there is already a vast shortage of skilled trades this would have completely decimated a mostly working class industry that many rely on, the man is a fool unfortunately.

Can you prove that ?

I have never heard Corbyn say that all workers should be paid the same.

You shouldn't  call anyone a fool unless you can prove the statement you have just made.

 

[top4718]

33 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Can you prove that ?

I have never heard Corbyn say that all workers should be paid the same.

You shouldn't  call anyone a fool unless you can prove the statement you have just made.

 

Ok I should have said a similar rate, his Real Living Wage in 2019 wanted to pay unskilled workers a minimum of £10ph at that time skilled workers were only earning about £1.50 more, it would have destroyed the construction industry.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, top4718 said:

Ok I should have said a similar rate, his Real Living Wage in 2019 wanted to pay unskilled workers a minimum of £10ph at that time skilled workers were only earning about £1.50 more, it would have destroyed the construction industry.

If he didn't say that then he didn't say that

You also haven't explained how that would destroy the construction industry..

Do all your posts contain things you made up yourself.

 

Corbyn simply wanted,  and very rightly so,  those at the bottom to receive a real living wage for their work.

Skilled workers should get the pay that they deserve but that shouldn't come off the back of unskilled workers being given less.

 

[top4718]

12 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

If he didn't say that then he didn't say that

You also haven't explained how that would destroy the construction industry..

Do all your posts contain things you made up yourself.

 

Corbyn simply wanted,  and very rightly so,  those at the bottom to receive a real living wage for their work.

Skilled workers should get the pay that they deserve but that shouldn't come off the back of unskilled workers being given less.

 

So you would have accepted the cost of services increasing when tradespeople many who have had to accept a low wage whilst gaining an apprenticeship suddenly asked for huge pay rises. Construction is struggling to attract young people as it is, why would they want to work in all weathers doing back breaking work when they could get similar pay for a job they can walk straight into, if you don't think that's an issue you clearly know nothing about the construction industry.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, top4718 said:

So you would have accepted the cost of services increasing when tradespeople many who have had to accept a low wage whilst gaining an apprenticeship suddenly asked for huge pay rises. Construction is struggling to attract young people as it is, why would they want to work in all weathers doing back breaking work when they could get similar pay for a job they can walk straight into, if you don't think that's an issue you clearly know nothing about the construction industry.

The cost of any service has to be paid for by the user and this has always been so.  I have run a business and know how business works.

I have never claimed to know anything about the construction industry but that does not prevent me from having a view of fair wage practices.

It would seem that,  not only the construction industry,  but almost every industry,  is struggling to attract young people   -   the reason being the poor wage rates that these industries are offering.

This applies to,  not only those at the bottom, but men & women further up the skills ladder and, Until such time as THY ALL get decent wages,  they will continue to struggle.

Do you honestly think that those in the boardrooms are struggling,  or that the shareholders are struggling ?  Forget that.

This country has become used to cheap foreign labour holding the wages of British workers down   -   Brexit has changed that but the money men are trying to hang on to it.

I would never agree to  taking advantage of those at the bottom in order to solve the money men's problem.  You may have been brainwashed and think different but that's up to you.  

Fight for your rights and let those at the bottom have some jam without taking it from those further up.   You don't ditch those who are drowning to save your own skin.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Organgrinder

[top4718]

3 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

The cost of any service has to be paid for by the user and this has always been so.  I have run a business and know how business works.

I have never claimed to know anything about the construction industry but that does not prevent me from having a view of fair wage practices.

It would seem that,  not only the construction industry,  but almost every industry,  is struggling to attract young people   -   the reason being the poor wage rates that these industries are offering.

This applies to,  not only those at the bottom, but men & women further up the skills ladder and, Until such time as THY ALL get decent wages,  they will continue to struggle.

Do you honestly think that those in the boardrooms are struggling,  or that the shareholders are struggling ?  Forget that.

This country has become used to cheap foreign labour holding the wages of British workers down   -   Brexit has changed that but the money men are trying to hang on to it.

I would never agree to  taking advantage of those at the bottom in order to solve the money men's problem.  You may have been brainwashed and think different but that's up to you.  

Fight for your rights and let those at the bottom have some jam without taking it from those further up.   You don't ditch those who are drowning to save your own skin.

 

 

I most certainly haven't been brainwashed, wages in construction have been arrived at over a number of years determined by many factors, the NFB suggests a percentage increase every year and the majority of companies follow that, if you suddenly increase wages exponentially then the cost of services will increase in line, I'll agree with your point that cheap foreign labour has had an impact as had education pushing kids towards University, "getting your hands mucky" doesn't look so attractive anymore.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, top4718 said:

I most certainly haven't been brainwashed, wages in construction have been arrived at over a number of years determined by many factors, the NFB suggests a percentage increase every year and the majority of companies follow that, if you suddenly increase wages exponentially then the cost of services will increase in line, I'll agree with your point that cheap foreign labour has had an impact as had education pushing kids towards University, "getting your hands mucky" doesn't look so attractive anymore.

I've already told you how the wages  have been determined for many years.

Needs looking at properly now that we are   "In charge of our own destiny"

If you are fool enough to carry on with the outdated practises and give the property speculators a laugh, then that's up to you.

 

[top4718]

2 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I've already told you how the wages  have been determined for many years.

Needs looking at properly now that we are   "In charge of our own destiny"

If you are fool enough to carry on with the outdated practises and give the property speculators a laugh, then that's up to you.

 

That's not even relevant to my original point and is a far wider issue.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, top4718 said:

That's not even relevant to my original point and is a far wider issue.

You were discussing how much the cost of housing has risen.

Consider this then,  have you and your fellow construction workers,  seen pay rises to match the cost of housing prices ??????

Of course you haven't.             You've been nobbled and you don't even know it.

 

[trastrick]

20 hours ago, top4718 said:

Skilled workers should get the pay that they deserve but that shouldn't come off the back of unskilled workers being given less.

You would have bureaucrats interfere with the concept of supply and demand, which is a natural human, and very finely balanced basis for modern economies.

 

It's counter productive.

 

It confuses government assistance for those who lack the ability to participate in society, (a worthy cause) with deciding what the intrinsic value of productive work in a free society should be.

 

It's counter productive, because it penalizes employers who offer entry level jobs to the unskilled, in return for an opportunity to be taught a skill which can lift them out of the "class" they have been assigned to.

 

My first employer took me straight from school, encouraged me to upgrade my education, provided one work free day a week for me to do so, and taught me  the valuable skilled trade of an electrician, over six years. They paid virtually nothing for the first few years of my apprenticeship. A win/win situation.

 

Likewise many unskilled and untalented people are absorbed into entry level menial jobs, like fast food, hospitality, agriculture and given the training and opportunity to become successful entrepreneurs, and in their turn, do the same for others.

 

Those entry level jobs teach unskilled people the basics of society.  How to get up early in the morning, be punctual, trustworthy, observe basic public grooming and hygiene standards, how to successfully socially interact with the public at large, in real life, on the job, situations.

 

Many entry level jobs lead to success, and keep people moving up from the bottom rung in society, rather than being labeled and stratified for life as "working class", and milked for votes, by teaching them to hate "the rich".

 

And,  rather than some theoretical government programs that see unemployed welders, rounded up to teach welding to other unemployed 

 

(Late edit - actually it was organgrinder who I was quoting above, not our dear Topsy!)

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by trastrick