Climate Change thread

[Al Bundy]

Just now, Organgrinder said:

That makes sense  because I'm on her side.   

You don't realise which side you're on and act accordingly.

 

Good lad.

👍

 

[trastrick]

19 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

 

She seems to have got up your noses a bit    -    sure sign that she's achieving her aims.

She want's publicity and you're still fools enough to keep discussing her and giving her what she wants.

For a kid,  she's pretty good at outwitting  supposedly grown ups.

 

It's a family enterprise! A show biz family.

 

She has her own "Foundation", now so that keeps them busy, counting the donations! 

 

 

[trastrick]

Let's see Sourcewatch?    Apparently a blank page on WIKI, not updated since 2021 they say! 

 

BBC an old article from 2011? 

 

Skeptical Science?

 

WIKI

 

"Skeptical Science (occasionally abbreviated SkS) is a climate science blog and information resource created in 2007 by Australian former cartoonist and web developer, John Cook,^[1][2][3] who received a PhD degree in cognitive science in 2016.^[4] In addition to publishing articles on current events relating to climate science and climate policy, the site maintains a database of articles analyzing the merit of arguments put forth by those who oppose the mainstream scientific opinion on climate change."

 

Former cartoonist?  This pays better! 

 

Grist Org? Chip Giller?

 

New York Times. An article from 2005?

 

The Left will scour the dregs of the ancient Internat to come up with their "staggering" global warming science!

 

Get up to date! 

 

Roy Spencer Biography | Booking Info for Speaking ...

allamericanspeakers.com

https://www.allamericanspeakers.com › Roy+Spencer

Dr. Spencer's work with NASA continues as the U.S. Science Team leader for the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer flying on NASA's Aqua satellite.

 

 

Announcer John Cleese asks, "and what makes these Scots so keen to be global warmists?"

 

Recruit, "The money's guid, and there's wa'er skiing! 
 

Edited August 20, 2023 by trastrick

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, trastrick said:

... The Left will scour the dregs of the ancient Internat to come up with their "staggering" global warming science! ...

Just because the bloke's work was repeatedly discredited over a period of several years, starting several years ago, does not negate the fact that his work has been discredited.

 

Here's another piece in response to him being triggered by some criticism:

 

Nazis, shoddy science, and the climate contrarian credibility gap:

 

Quote

 

Spencer, Christy, and McNider offer perfect examples of what John Kerry was criticizing – shoddy, biased science being treated on equal footing with solid mainstream science. In reality, there should be an immense credibility gap between the climate contrarians who have been consistently wrong and who deny the inconvenient data, and the mainstream climate scientists whose positions are supported by the full body of scientific evidence.

 

When a fringe 2 to 4 percent minority - who consistently produce shoddy analysis and compare those with whom they disagree to Nazis - are given equal credibility by the media and policymakers as the 97 percent of scientific experts, we have a problem.

 

And oh look, he's also a creationist.  Well I know I for one am deeply shocked by that entirely unexpected turn of events:

 

Quote

Spencer is also on the advisory board of the Cornwall Alliance, a group with 'An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming' claiming that "Earth and its ecosystems—created by God's intelligent design and infinite power and sustained by His faithful providence —are robust, resilient, self-regulating, and self-correcting, admirably suited for human flourishing, and displaying His glory."

 

And since you mentioned NASA, here's what they have to say:

Do scientists agree on climate change?

 

Quote

Yes, the vast majority of actively publishing climate scientists – 97 percent – agree that humans are causing global warming and climate change. Most of the leading science organizations around the world have issued public statements expressing this, including international and U.S. science academies, the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and a whole host of reputable scientific bodies around the world.

 

[cressida]

It's the fault of humans!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24021772

 

But scientists say that there is no doubt that the particularly rapid climate change seen over the past century is caused by humans.

Edited August 20, 2023 by cressida

[Chekhov]

On 17/06/2023 at 09:36, Chekhov said:

It was always going to happen. Claiming to be in favour of "Nett Zero" means nothing if people do not realise what it actually means :

 

BERLIN, May 16 (Reuters) -

Germany's Greens lose appeal as voters fear cost of policies

A slide in support for Germany's Greens, a junior partner in Olaf Scholz's coalition, could force the party to consider scaling back its climate ambitions as voters fret over their financial and social cost.

Support for the Greens slumped by a third to 12% in the state of Bremen on Sunday compared with the last election in 2019, according to projected results. The vote reflected a drop in support at a federal level too, to around 15% in opinion polls from a peak of 23-24% last year.

Their appeal has faded this year, however, as Germans focus more on domestic matters and consider how much the Greens' climate policies will cost and require in lifestyle adjustments. This has sent some voters back to Scholz's Social Democrats or the opposition conservatives.

 

So far the population of the UK have not really suffered from the "Nett Zero" policy. The government have been very lucky because the hugely more expensive energy (demanded by the Nett Zero policy) has been blamed on the Ukraine war (though part of it is also a result of the pandemic).
The Germans are banning installation of new gas boilers from Jan the 1st next year.

That's due in the UK from 2025, that's less that 2 years away......

More on this :

 

The Times 28 Aug 23 p27)

Green policies "risk German recession"

Germany is heading for a recession driven by the bureaucracy of the government's green energy policies, the country's opposition has warned.

Friedrich Merz, leader of the opposition Christian Democrats, is ahead in the opinion polls after adopting more populist policies on the environment and immigration.

Germany is expecting to be the worst performing leading economy in the world this year according to the IMF and the OECD.

Merz has blamed the slump on the government's energy policies, which are being led by the Greens in the coalition led by Olaf Schulz, the Social Democratic chancellor. A public back lash forced Schulz to back down on proposals to ban new gas boilers.

Almost 3/4 of Germans - 73% - are dissatisfied with Scholz's coalition government according to an opinion poll this weekend.

 

Looks like Sunak is onto something backing away from this Nett Zero obsession....

 

The anti democrats who don't want the electorate to be given any choice on this (or much else as it happens) will be very upset by this. 

Tough.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Chekhov

[Mister Gee]

1 minute ago, Chekhov said:

More on this :

 

The Times 28 Aug 23 p27)

Green policies "risk German recession"

Germany is heading for a recession driven by the bureaucracy of the government's green energy policies, the country's opposition has warned.

Friedrich Merz, leader of the opposition Christian Democrats, is ahead in the opinion polls after adopting more populist policies on the environment and immigration.

Germany is expecting to be the worst performing leading economy in the world this year according to the IMF and the OECD.

Merz has blamed the slump on the government's energy policies, which are being led by the Greens in the coalition led by Olaf Schulz, the Social Democratic chancellor. A public back lash forced Schulz to back down on proposals to ban new gas boilers.

Almost 3/4 of Germans - 73% - are dissatisfied with Scholz's coalition government according to an opinion poll this weekend.

 

Looks like Sunak is onto something backing away from this Nett Zero obsession....

 

 

The only thing that Sunak is onto is getting his arse handed to him on a plate next year.

[Anna B]

On 20/08/2023 at 18:25, cressida said:

It's the fault of humans!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24021772

 

But scientists say that there is no doubt that the particularly rapid climate change seen over the past century is caused by humans.

Because scientists never get anything wrong do the? They're infallible.... 

You know there are scientists who think differently, but are rarely heard because their views don't match the agenda?

 

Having said that, yes I do think the Earth is going through a warming cycle, but the Earth has warmed and cooled regularly over millennia and no doubt will continue to do so. 

I also think we need to clean up our act and take care of the Earth and its precious resources, by recycling, cutting out waste and consuming less. But let's use a bit of joined up thinking and get it right or it will not be taken seriously.

 

For example, why is Richard Branson allowed to blast rockets into space on a regular basis, so the super rich can have the pleasure of space trips, and why are private jets allowed to fly all over the world without censure, but ordinary citizens are expected to give up their essential cars journeys or buy an electric car which causes more CO2 in it's manufacture than combustion engines, and is also fuelled by electricity which has to be manufactured too. 

 

Why are we sending weapons to Ukraine to aid destruction and produce God knows how much pollution? Why are we bending over backwards to meet low emission targets (in a country that already has a low baseline,) while China and India pump it out with abandon. Why are we being forced to actually travel further to comply with new restrictions when trying to get from A to B? Is there any wonder people see it as a money grab. And why is there not a reliable and cheap public transport system all over the country (not just London,) if they want people to give up their cars.

 

I could go on with the many anomalies that quite simply haven't been thought through, but many of them have already been mentioned in this thread already.

 

What do they actually talk about at Davos and these other World forums that they can't find a way to work it out sensibly together?    

 

 

[Prettytom]

8 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Because scientists never get anything wrong do the? They're infallible.... 

You know there are scientists who think differently, but are rarely heard because their views don't match the agenda?

 

 

 

 

You know that those scientists simply need to publish their research and put it up for peer review. Then they will be heard.

 

If their research stands up to scrutiny, then they will become the agenda.

 

That’s how science works. A properly democratic method of probing for the truth.

 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Because scientists never get anything wrong do the? They're infallible.... 

You know there are scientists who think differently, but are rarely heard because their views don't match the agenda?

 

Having said that, yes I do think the Earth is going through a warming cycle, but the Earth has warmed and cooled regularly over millennia and no doubt will continue to do so. 

I also think we need to clean up our act and take care of the Earth and its precious resources, by recycling, cutting out waste and consuming less. But let's use a bit of joined up thinking and get it right or it will not be taken seriously.

 

For example, why is Richard Branson allowed to blast rockets into space on a regular basis, so the super rich can have the pleasure of space trips, and why are private jets allowed to fly all over the world without censure, but ordinary citizens are expected to give up their essential cars journeys or buy an electric car which causes more CO2 in it's manufacture than combustion engines, and is also fuelled by electricity which has to be manufactured too. 

 

Why are we sending weapons to Ukraine to aid destruction and produce God knows how much pollution? Why are we bending over backwards to meet low emission targets (in a country that already has a low baseline,) while China and India pump it out with abandon. Why are we being forced to actually travel further to comply with new restrictions when trying to get from A to B? Is there any wonder people see it as a money grab. And why is there not a reliable and cheap public transport system all over the country (not just London,) if they want people to give up their cars.

 

I could go on with the many anomalies that quite simply haven't been thought through, but many of them have already been mentioned in this thread already.

 

What do they actually talk about at Davos and these other World forums that they can't find a way to work it out sensibly together?    

 

 

It says 97% of scientists agree   -   that's a very large percentage.     No one would claim they are infallible but it makes sense to go with the such a massive majority of thought.

Having said that,  I agree with much of what you say and you make many good points. With regard to China & India,  that's correct too but they are late starters at pollution

whereas we had been doing it for 150 years and most of the damage already done, has been done by us, Europe and America. 

Another mistake the politicians made is to wait 30 years before taking action.  The situation was becoming clear a long time ago and the scientists did spell it out.

If,  for instance,  governments had set present car emission levels 30 years ago and gradually made them tougher every year or two,  the worst polluting vehicles would be already long gone.

I still see vehicles every day belching smoke and the government relies mostly on MOT's  to deal with this but it just isn't working.

We don't need private cars with engines of 3.6 or 4.8 litres when our speed limits and road system mean that my 1300cc fairly clean car,  can easily reach and surpass them.

Some rail electrification was done in the 1960's but most was left and filthy polluting Diesel locos were used.  Cleaner Electricity should have been a target much earlier.

The government are still back peddling on  targets and just look at the massive pollution in our rivers and seas,  killing wildlife and fish.  Man has already ruined this beautiful planet.

The world discussion forums are just another luxury feeding and drinking extravaganza for the politicians before they return home and break every pledge.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Organgrinder