Climate Change thread

[Annie Bynnol]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

But this isn't just about the science, it's also about the narrative and that's largely down to the government / media

'Follow the money.' is a truism which can be applied here.

In other words who benefits from giving a false impression of things being worse than they are? 

Well, it's allowed the government to bring in new taxes, albeit stealth taxes, and a worried population is easier to control. They look to the government for solutions, and the more worried they are the more likely they are to be compliant with whatever the authorities throw at them, even if it defies logic. (Tried and tested with the Pandemic, when much didn't make any sense.)

Another truism is the mushroom growing theory - 'Feed 'em **** and keep them in the dark...'

      This sounds far more like a manifesto for the right wing free economists. The 'elephants in the room' which you ignore here, are combined interests of industry,  banking and capitalism which depends on growth-which is linked to energy use, raw material use and transportation. Too many in these sectors see public opinion and government rules as a threat and spend $millions on churning out the propaganda you reproduce above. What better way of countering the move away from populist right wing politics than your manifesto.

[trastrick]

3 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

The 'elephants in the room' which you ignore here, are combined interests of industry,  banking and capitalism which depends on growth-which is linked to energy use, raw material use and transportation.

Which incidentally is providing the world population with goods and services and precious food and medical products.

 

Not to mention anything you are wearing, eating, or using around the house.

 

Lol

[Annie Bynnol]

4 minutes ago, trastrick said:

Say what?

I don't dwell in your netherworld of conspiracy theories, so I've never come across these individuals, or their opinions, in my lifetime interest in science.

Pathetic, but failed effort to link me to your enemies list, yet again!

Science is an exercise of theory, confirmed by observation, not any particular consensus, at any given time in history.

Thanks to technology, we now have more and more observations that confirm or invalidate scientific theory.

The problem in science (and life in general for that matter) is when people heavily invested in a theory, for whatever reasons, refuse to let it go.

Embarrassment, reputation, funding, ego, peer pressure are all human characteristics.

Alan Guth's "Big Bang" theory failed to fully explain actual observations and so it was failing until he came up with "inflation" an assumed period when the universe grew relatively slowly, and then grew very fast indeed (his famous Inflation Theory) then, for no apparent reason, resumed its' former rate of. expansion.

This was all before Dark Energy, Dark Matter, became the latest theory, and new observations by  Nobel prizewinner Sail Perlmutter announce his observations and explosive findings on the cosmic expansion rate in the 90s.

And before the James Webb telescope found many other inconsistencies with current theories of expansion.

So the big bang theory is in the sick bay for now, as it has collected more and more "adjustments" (read kludges) to make it viable.

Now the eminent Mr Guth is  has a new theory, "More recently, Guth has expressed his belief that our universe is just one of many universes that came into existence among countless others as part of a multiverse. According to this theory, cosmic inflation never ends, but continues expanding at an exponential rate, with additional universes being created all the time as "bubbles" within the inflation process (in some ways similar to Fred Hoyle’s discredited steady-state theory)

 

  You make the claim "Just a couple of photos of spiral galaxies, and photos from the James Web(sic) telescope were enough to bin the "Big Bang" consensus, and humble the scientists into the realization that now they don't even know what 95% of the universe consists of."

  Where did you copy this from?

  

4 minutes ago, trastrick said:

Which incidentally is providing the world population with goods and services and precious food and medical products.

Not to mention anything you are wearing, eating, or using around the house.

Lol

 And that is a valid viewpoint which should be part of the rational debate. 

[trastrick]

9 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

You make the claim "Just a couple of photos of spiral galaxies, and photos from the James Web(sic) telescope were enough to bin the "Big Bang" consensus, and humble the scientists into the realization that now they don't even know what 95% of the universe consists of."

  Where did you copy this from?

Ah now the "plagiarism" charge? 

 

Time out for you , dearie!

 

 

 

[cuttsie]

8 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

  Your poor understanding of science is clearly shown by your assumption that any scientist has ever proposed that science is or ever will be "settled". The only people who think that understanding is "settled" are those who hand over their thinking process to one of many religions, conmen, cults etc.

   Einstein, Sagan and hundreds of thousands of others before and after them in thousands of institutions, labs, etc  globally, will continue to attempt to model understanding on the observations(eg JWST) available to them, the cooperation, testing and criticism of others, the planning of further observations, experiments and tests. 

   Secondly you claim that "Just a couple of photos of spiral galaxies, and photos from the James Webb telescope were enough to bin the "Big Bang"". You have fallen for the misquoting of Kirkpatrick by Eric Lerner a Big Bang denier and  promoter of pseudoscientific alternatives for 35 years. He also believes that the universe is static and the domain of a creator.

 

So who  created the creator 

Edited September 1, 2023 by cuttsie

[Annie Bynnol]

 

20 minutes ago, trastrick said:

Ah now the "plagiarism" charge? 

Time out for you , dearie!

   

 You make the claim "Just a couple of photos of spiral galaxies, and photos from the James Web(sic) telescope were enough to bin the "Big Bang" consensus, and humble the scientists into the realization that now they don't even know what 95% of the universe consists of."

  Where did you source this from?

[harvey19]

10 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

So who  created the creator 

Scientific theory doesn't have any idea.

This one fact alone proves there is so much we do not know and therefore until we progress our knowledge theories are only valid until a new one comes along.

Sometimes faith is the only way.

[cuttsie]

1 minute ago, harvey19 said:

Scientific theory doesn't have any idea.

This one fact alone proves there is so much we do not know and therefore until we progress our knowledge theories are only valid until a new one comes along.

Sometimes faith is the only way.

Which God is the one to follow ?

[harvey19]

12 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

Which God is the one to follow ?

The one you believe to be the true God.

[Anna B]

3 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

      This sounds far more like a manifesto for the right wing free economists. The 'elephants in the room' which you ignore here, are combined interests of industry,  banking and capitalism which depends on growth-which is linked to energy use, raw material use and transportation. Too many in these sectors see public opinion and government rules as a threat and spend $millions on churning out the propaganda you reproduce above. What better way of countering the move away from populist right wing politics than your manifesto.

I'm not ignoring the interests of industry, banking and capitalism at all, it's part of the argument. My argument is that they have been left largely untouched in the scheme of things by government interference, even though they are far and away the biggest polluters.

 

Instead the government via the councils continue to persecute the little man in the street and the car drivers, who make an easy target because they  don't have the power to fight back. Even the power of the ballot box has been taken away from them.  

 

If climate change is man made, imminent and as serious as is claimed, then surely we all have to contribute to  solving it. The fact that  Industry et al is being let off with nothing more than weak 'voluntary agreements' etc is a cop out, and leads me and the persecuted man in the street to believe we  are being conned into being the sacrificial lambs and cash cows.