Climate Change thread

[trastrick]

Just now, trastrick said:

And here are the unelected "elite" "experts" appointed to spend these laughable amounts of money.

 

Under oath!

 

In the first case an airbrain with "feelings", and in the second and third case a show of elitism and an example of the charlatans I was referring to, in my post above!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

   What someone regard as an 'emergency' or a 'crisis' and depends very much on their vested interests and timescale.

   Someone over 50 is far more likely not to be affected by the effects of climate change over the next fifty years.

   Politicians, investors, capitalists, economists and planners do not focus on such long term effects no matter how profound. 

   

   You will never find "...any definitive proof" of climate change -science does not work that way and never has.

   What you have got, if you care to look, is billions of bits of data collected millions of locations showing trends across the globe that are explained by an increase in solar energy being retained in the oceans, surface and atmosphere. In the history of the Earth such events went hand in hand with orbit, continental drift, evolution of species, sea current changes, new mountain ranges, afforestation,  volcanic activity, fire, exposure of certain rocks, release of methane etc-many of which feed off each other. These 'natural' factors have not gone away but are being modified by human activity. 

    Change will happen because we stick more heat energy into the atmosphere and we make changes that enable more heat to be retained.

    

  There would have been scientists around in the 60's that a disproportionate number of poor people are subject to flooding and seas level changes.

I said that climate change is probably happening and we will be contributing it's the global warming bit I'm dubious about, and yes I've read the reports but I've also read reports that suggest the rural temperatures have barely changed.

If air temperature was measured at the poles and sea temperatures at the equator we may get a better idea of whether the temperatures are rising.

[trastrick]

26 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

^^^^ For once, I nearly totally agree with you.

 

God no!

 

I must be losing my touch  😀

[Annie Bynnol]

43 minutes ago, Uggy said:

I said that climate change is probably happening and we will be contributing it's the global warming bit I'm dubious about, and yes I've read the reports but I've also read reports that suggest the rural temperatures have barely changed.

If air temperature was measured at the poles and sea temperatures at the equator we may get a better idea of whether the temperatures are rising.

    Air and sea temperatures have been measured at thousand of places continually including the poles and the Equator for decades and less frequently for well over 200 years. 

    There are thousands of different reports on a huge range of subjects designed to generate data for analysis. The analysis is done by international, national, local and individuals. Hundreds of reports are reports on reports-called a meta analysis, done in order to give a range or trend. Only a very few reports make it into the media as they are considered too boring-repeating the same old 'it's getting warmer' stuff.   

 

   If by 'rural' you mean --not urban, then you would be right in saying that the urban environment is typically 'hotter' and has been for 2000+ years- but the upward trend is the same and the impact on agricultural production will be significant.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

    Air and sea temperatures have been measured at thousand of places continually including the poles and the Equator for decades and less frequently for well over 200 years. 

    There are thousands of different reports on a huge range of subjects designed to generate data for analysis. The analysis is done by international, national, local and individuals. Hundreds of reports are reports on reports-called a meta analysis, done in order to give a range or trend. Only a very few reports make it into the media as they are considered too boring-repeating the same old 'it's getting warmer' stuff.   

 

   If by 'rural' you mean --not urban, then you would be right in saying that the urban environment is typically 'hotter' and has been for 2000+ years- but the upward trend is the same and the impact on agricultural production will be significant.

the point I'm trying to make is that if equatorial sea temperature and polar air temperatures are plotted separately we may get a different picture or not, the upward trend in rural temperatures is not the same as the general upward trend in fact barely perceptibly.

[trastrick]

34 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

 If by 'rural' you mean --not urban, then you would be right in saying that the urban environment is typically 'hotter' and has been for 2000+ years- but the upward trend is the same and the impact on agricultural production will be significant.

 

And there's the nub of the gist!

 

"Significant" does not necessarily mean harmful!

 

We do know that C02 is greening the deserts, and we do know C02 is the primary plant sustenance, we do know that warmer climates produce more food than colder climates, and we do know that World Agricultural Production is increasing dramatically in the last few years.

 

The rest is speculation, and in the last 30 years such speculations, silent springs, population bombs, food shortages, ice free North Pole, fossil fuels depleted by the year 2,000, and so on, has proven to be just that, speculation, but for some unscientific reason, always negative speculation.

 

Odd that! 😀

 

So

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Annie Bynnol said:

    Air and sea temperatures have been measured at thousand of places continually including the poles and the Equator for decades and less frequently for well over 200 years. 

    There are thousands of different reports on a huge range of subjects designed to generate data for analysis. The analysis is done by international, national, local and individuals. Hundreds of reports are reports on reports-called a meta analysis, done in order to give a range or trend. Only a very few reports make it into the media as they are considered too boring-repeating the same old 'it's getting warmer' stuff.   

 

   If by 'rural' you mean --not urban, then you would be right in saying that the urban environment is typically 'hotter' and has been for 2000+ years- but the upward trend is the same and the impact on agricultural production will be significant.

2000+ years I hadn't realized we'd been able to measure temperatures for that long.

[Annie Bynnol]

26 minutes ago, trastrick said:

 

And there's the nub of the gist!

"Significant" does not necessarily mean harmful!

We do know that C02 is greening the deserts, and we do know C02 is the primary plant sustenance, we do know that warmer climates produce more food than colder climates, and we do know that World Agricultural Production is increasing dramatically in the last few years.

The rest is speculation, and in the last 30 years such speculations, silent springs, population bombs, food shortages, ice free North Pole, fossil fuels depleted by the year 2,000, and so on, has proven to be just that, speculation, but for some unscientific reason, always negative speculation.

Odd that! 

So

 

  In mathematics and statistics use of the word 'significant' means what it says and not in the dilute form used in spoken English.

 The other mistake you make is making the assumption that because a data set is mathematically 'significant' (is that a data beyond chance) is you can then can ascribe valueless words like 'harmful'. 

  It really does not help to advance your case that you go off on your usual political tangent.

[Annie Bynnol]

9 minutes ago, Uggy said:

2000+ years I hadn't realized we'd been able to measure temperatures for that long.

   

   Did I say that?

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

   

   Did I say that?

If by 'rural' you mean --not urban, then you would be right in saying that the urban environment is typically 'hotter' and has been for 2000+ years- but the upward trend is the same and the impact on agricultural production will be significant.